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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the flight path

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zone there goes another one Richard

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Saunders here with you from Sydney

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Australia now it's episode number 205 of

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the skeptic zone podcast for the 22nd of

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sep tember as another aircraft

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disappears this is a temp number 48 of

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trying to do this intro because every

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time I do it an aircraft flies over but

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you know what I've given up let's just

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get on with it thank you to all those

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people who donated chipped in to help me

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buy some software I need to finish the

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vaccination chronicles the new

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documentary I'm working on almost reach

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my goal and of course that is enough for

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me to get that software upgrade it's

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it's a wonderful example of listeners

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chipping in to really help and when that

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documentary comes out those listeners

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who did help your names will be in the

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credit as a special thank you it means a

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lot and it also means a lot to me to

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know that every now and then when I

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think it's necessary my listeners are

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ready to come to the age of the party so

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to speak and really help thank you again

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but on to this week's show before

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another plane comes over we're going to

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have a wonderfully long interview that

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our friend may not conducted a tam Las

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Vegas with Ben Radford now been Radford

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what an adventurous life he has folks he

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really is one of those investigators who

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gets out there and looks under the bed

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and looks behind the door and goes out

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investigating in person interviews

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people travels far and wide to get to

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the bottom of mysteries oh here comes

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another one wow really is flight path

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time

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anyway Ben Radford a wonderful interview

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coming up to kick off this week's

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episode of the skeptic zone and that's

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quite a lengthy interview but well worth

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the listen then after the break I catch

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up with a very good man adam van

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langenberg from melbourne a skeptical

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teacher who runs a skeptical club in his

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high school now recently he conducted an

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experiment where he had students with

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buckets on their head their students

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with buckets on the head why would you

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put buckets on the head of students find

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out a little bit later on in the skeptic

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zone and I'm delighted to say that adam

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van langenberg will be a guest at the

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forthcoming Australian skeptics

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convention in Melbourne along with DJ

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Grothe rebecca watson lynn kelly dr.

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rachy myself and james randi tickets are

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still on sale check out w WV skeptics

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wordpress com to find out more and book

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your ticket I know that we're going to

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have a great time involvement and

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speaking of conventions that's

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interesting because ten years ago 2002 I

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was in Melbourne for the Australian

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skeptics and your convention Wow ten

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years have gone by and as it happened I

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was there not only to do bits and pieces

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at the convention I was um as

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coincidence would have it I was present

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of the Australian skeptics then ten

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years ago as I am now and I videoed the

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convention and in fact over the last

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decade I have been video II many

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Australian skeptics conventions and and

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we've decided to put a lot of those

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videos up online over the last 10 years

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bit by bit if you go to ww skeptics

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Comte you mouse over the publication's

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tab at the top of the page you'll see a

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drop down menu come up and one of the

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options is convention videos lots of

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videos there from skeptics conventions

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in Australia over the past decade or so

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and while you're at Caltech scanda you

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if you're in Sydney you still have

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time still have time to buy tickets for

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our the skeptics dinner meeting coming

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up on the twenty-ninth of sep tember

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special guest Tory Shepard punch

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columnist and chief reporter for news

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com talking all about the paranoia in

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pseudo-scientific in the media skeptics

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dinners in Sydney are there different

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from skeptics in the pub there a little

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bit more formal a nice dinner and a very

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interesting talk book your tickets now

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in the next few days while you still

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have a chance at ww skeptics comte you

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and I shall see you there but now it's

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time for me to have some nice sour fish

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fingers and custard while you enjoy the

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here's my not spooky action at a

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I tell you what folks skeptic zone fans

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dirty disbeliever fans we've got a guy

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for you Ben Radford but just explain who

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you are and what's of stuff you've been

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investigating and why do you do that

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yourself well I'm Benjamin Radford I'm

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the deputy editor of skeptical Inquirer

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science magazine I'm a research fellow

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with the committee for skeptical inquiry

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non-profit educational organization I

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also write books and do investigations

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of written six or seven books well six

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books with the seventh one coming out

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and I'm best known for doing

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investigations of what you would call

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weird things that's what we like to hey

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bit of a punctuation there now what is

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the one weird thing you haven't got to

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yet that's in your to do we do party or

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brain I would there's actually a a

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strange place called the Coral Castle in

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Florida and it's it's this giant sort of

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like a it's like Stonehenge type thing

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is that where the guy's rumored to have

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made it but I leavitt levitating it and

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using sonic waves similar to what the

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ancient alien theorists would have told

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the Egyptians that because I've seen

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that on ancient aliens and what do you

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think it is well I've looked into I I

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haven't personally been there I'm

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actually hoping to go there later this

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year but a it's pretty clear a you know

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the guy that created an a guy named

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Edward Leedskalnin he claimed that he

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did it using the same methods that the

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the ancient Egyptians used if that's

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true then that solves the mystery

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because we actually know how the

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pyramids were built so so in a way you

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know if the main proponent of the claim

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is is is being honest with us then

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really there's no mystery hang on I've

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been told that we still don't know how

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they built that and we could not

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replicate that today even with modern

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building materials I've heard that as

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well and that is I think what they call

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Bullock's the fact of the matter is that

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we actually have pretty good records in

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terms of how the ancient Egyptians made

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it and this is nothing new you can look

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up it now I i first read it in national

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geographic magazine which is you know

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Harley and an arm of the conspiracy

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theory wing it's all it's all right

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there if you bother to take the time to

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do it

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and is there any Ilah Christina I'll

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avenged aliens and look I'm big von

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Daniken fan I even dared to mention the

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name to Iranian yesterday and and as a

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child that really fired my imagination

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in a big way and still does and I like

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watching it is that and I spoke to some

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people only last night that thought it

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was a great gateway drug to studying

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real archaeology do you think there's a

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nugget to these shows where they

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actually quite valuable and they're not

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as bad as a lot of skeptics would make

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out I'm not so convinced by that

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argument primarily because because a lot

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of times the the underlying basis and

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premises are so badly wrong when you've

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got people like von Daniken and people

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who are saying that for example the the

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glyphs in the in the desert in Chile and

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the Nazca plans for example could only

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have been created by aliens it's simply

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not true and you know you can argue that

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well yeah but it's interesting people in

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history and archaeology and my answer is

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it's interesting them in in false

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information it's it's interesting them

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in in in in false mysteries actually you

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do a lot of investigations so like a lot

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of skeptics there must be one that you

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think is truly dangerous what is the

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most that Miss held belief that you've

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investigated that could do some real

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harm to people are probably the ones

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that involve the medical medical issues

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because you know if look if you believe

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in in UFOs you leave in the Yowie

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whatever else that's fine there's you

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know you can believe whatever you want

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at the point of which you're you're

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you're going to people who are claiming

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to do faith healing whoo claiming to

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give you you know medicines which are

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homeopathic and they have no active

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ingredient things like that

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anti-vaccination I mean I in Australia

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you have a you know a strong anti vax

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contingent that I'm often reading about

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and doing great work over there for many

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of the skeptics at that point you're

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you're harming real people in many cases

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you know irreparably in children and so

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this is too much why mine that is that

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is the real that's the real danger there

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things that are dangerous so how do you

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separate your emotion because from these

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issues sometimes when you're

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investigating them to try and be as

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impartial as possible well I don't have

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a problem with it because at the end of

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the day

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you know the I don't have a vested

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interest in this matter I I personally

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don't care whether Bigfoot exists I

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personally don't care whether psychic

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powers exist or go somewhere else it's

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not a I don't lose sleep either way Mike

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my my issue is what is the truth and

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when I go do an investigation into a

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ghost for haunting for example I want to

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know the answers if the answer is that

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there's a ghost great or the answer is

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their psychic powers or crop circles

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maybe aliens then that's fine so I in

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the topics that I investigate I actually

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don't have that strong a personal

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interest in it so it's not a I'm not

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personally you know affronted or or you

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know embellished if I find or don't find

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something so I that's that's how I keep

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my personal of course everybody brings

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their own personal perspectives and

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biases to each position investigation in

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each topic but in terms of you know

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trying to you know trying to guide it in

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one way or the other I don't really have

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that problem terms of separating out the

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the personal from the professional what

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about some issues that the usual defense

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is that is actually outside science so

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it can't be investigated i'd say maybe

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some alien abduction accounts ball into

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that because there's the you can't prove

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it because the way the our reality has

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been altered by the aliens how can you

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investigate something like that well

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that's a common misperception that i

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hear people say well well you know how

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can you possibly investigate ghosts

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they're beyond science or psychic powers

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were beyond science or alien abductions

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in the case of you gave and the answer

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is that they're not beyond science

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Sciences is the method through which we

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understand our world whether you know

271
00:11:36,730 --> 00:11:35,120
whether it's physics geology I mean

272
00:11:39,220 --> 00:11:36,740
everything around us can be understood

273
00:11:41,290 --> 00:11:39,230
through science and if someone is making

274
00:11:43,689 --> 00:11:41,300
a claim that for example they were

275
00:11:46,059 --> 00:11:43,699
abducted by aliens that's not beyond

276
00:11:47,470 --> 00:11:46,069
science I mean either you know if

277
00:11:49,569 --> 00:11:47,480
they're claiming that this happened you

278
00:11:51,999 --> 00:11:49,579
in their in their neighborhood at three

279
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:52,009
o'clock on a Sunday afternoon and there

280
00:11:56,139 --> 00:11:53,930
was a spaceship hovering overhead either

281
00:11:57,670 --> 00:11:56,149
other neighbor saw it or they didn't see

282
00:11:59,439 --> 00:11:57,680
it this is not a matter of opinion this

283
00:12:01,809 --> 00:11:59,449
is not a matter of subjective experience

284
00:12:05,790 --> 00:12:01,819
there are you know Eve for all these

285
00:12:08,350 --> 00:12:05,800
topics there are and should be you know

286
00:12:09,759 --> 00:12:08,360
falsifiable scientific claims about them

287
00:12:11,619 --> 00:12:09,769
and if someone

288
00:12:14,139 --> 00:12:11,629
comes out to me says I believe in ghosts

289
00:12:19,059 --> 00:12:14,149
or I believe I was abducted my answer is

290
00:12:20,379 --> 00:12:19,069
okay good for you I'm I'm glad what what

291
00:12:22,359 --> 00:12:20,389
do you want me to tell you I I'm not

292
00:12:24,579 --> 00:12:22,369
going to try and disprove that if on the

293
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:24,589
other hand someone says I believe in

294
00:12:29,109 --> 00:12:27,410
ghosts or UFOs or psychics because I

295
00:12:30,579 --> 00:12:29,119
have evidence or because something

296
00:12:32,859 --> 00:12:30,589
convinced me then I'm going to say well

297
00:12:34,749 --> 00:12:32,869
hold on here what exactly is that and if

298
00:12:37,869 --> 00:12:34,759
they just come back and say well I just

299
00:12:39,069 --> 00:12:37,879
want to believe then I I have no there's

300
00:12:40,359 --> 00:12:39,079
nothing trying to figure out that claim

301
00:12:42,340 --> 00:12:40,369
there's nothing there's nothing you can

302
00:12:43,660 --> 00:12:42,350
you investigate and speaking of

303
00:12:46,629 --> 00:12:43,670
Investigation you've looked into the

304
00:12:49,419 --> 00:12:46,639
chupacabra and what did you find sir

305
00:12:51,309 --> 00:12:49,429
what did I find there as I said what did

306
00:12:54,460 --> 00:12:51,319
you find sir I said that in the mighty

307
00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:54,470
boosh kind of way well I i wrote a book

308
00:12:58,569 --> 00:12:56,480
on that it actually was was nominated

309
00:12:59,799 --> 00:12:58,579
for two Book Awards this this year I'm

310
00:13:01,720 --> 00:12:59,809
pleased about that the book is called

311
00:13:04,269 --> 00:13:01,730
tracking the chupacabra the vampire

312
00:13:05,979 --> 00:13:04,279
based in fact fiction folklore and it's

313
00:13:07,989 --> 00:13:05,989
actually been taken seriously in several

314
00:13:10,239 --> 00:13:07,999
scholarly and academic journals which

315
00:13:12,009 --> 00:13:10,249
I'm quite pleased about so I I don't

316
00:13:14,319 --> 00:13:12,019
know if I can really summarize 200 and

317
00:13:17,079 --> 00:13:14,329
some pages of five years of research in

318
00:13:18,609 --> 00:13:17,089
a sentence but essentially what I found

319
00:13:21,220 --> 00:13:18,619
and the chupacabra for those who don't

320
00:13:22,869 --> 00:13:21,230
know it's it's it's the world's first or

321
00:13:24,939 --> 00:13:22,879
set of a second or third best known

322
00:13:26,859 --> 00:13:24,949
monster after Bigfoot and the unlock

323
00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:26,869
Ness monster and it actually translate

324
00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:29,689
to go to be does which which sounds like

325
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:32,689
a great hip-hop track all right you

326
00:13:37,150 --> 00:13:34,490
little bling or something going on there

327
00:13:38,949 --> 00:13:37,160
yeah it's and it said to what will the

328
00:13:40,929 --> 00:13:38,959
interesting thing about the chupacabra

329
00:13:44,410 --> 00:13:40,939
is that unlike for example bigfooter or

330
00:13:46,059 --> 00:13:44,420
nasty it's a vampire it is that that's

331
00:13:47,919 --> 00:13:46,069
part of its nature is its event in fact

332
00:13:50,289 --> 00:13:47,929
is it's the world's second best known

333
00:13:51,879 --> 00:13:50,299
vampire for Dracula Rhys it so it is in

334
00:13:53,829 --> 00:13:51,889
fact otherworldly almost immediately

335
00:13:54,909 --> 00:13:53,839
because the vampires don't correspond

336
00:13:57,460 --> 00:13:54,919
with anything we know in the natural

337
00:13:59,019 --> 00:13:57,470
world well well I mean in some cases you

338
00:14:00,879 --> 00:13:59,029
mean you have leeches you have vampire

339
00:14:02,379 --> 00:14:00,889
bats you hit you mosquitoes I means

340
00:14:05,109 --> 00:14:02,389
there are blood sucking animals the

341
00:14:07,449 --> 00:14:05,119
question is are the characteristics that

342
00:14:09,699 --> 00:14:07,459
are being reported in regarding the

343
00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:09,709
chupacabra are those plausible is there

344
00:14:13,150 --> 00:14:10,910
any reason to think this is more than

345
00:14:15,119 --> 00:14:13,160
just a cultural myth and in my research

346
00:14:18,039 --> 00:14:15,129
which again it took me five years to

347
00:14:19,449 --> 00:14:18,049
finish I looked at it from a folkloric

348
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:19,459
point of view from forensics i

349
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:21,490
interviewed medical examiner's

350
00:14:25,139 --> 00:14:23,680
I basically approached it from all

351
00:14:27,210 --> 00:14:25,149
possible angles trying to figure out

352
00:14:28,199 --> 00:14:27,220
what what what is this monster this

353
00:14:30,420 --> 00:14:28,209
creature and there's there's basically

354
00:14:33,170 --> 00:14:30,430
two different forms the first one is a

355
00:14:36,540 --> 00:14:33,180
bipedal spiky backed alien type creature

356
00:14:39,630 --> 00:14:36,550
it was first seen in Puerto Rico in 1995

357
00:14:41,220 --> 00:14:39,640
and then that version sort of came and

358
00:14:44,220 --> 00:14:41,230
went and then the second version that

359
00:14:46,740 --> 00:14:44,230
came up around 2000 was basically like a

360
00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:46,750
hairless dog or a dog coyote or dingo

361
00:14:51,150 --> 00:14:48,240
seems like that basically i cain't it

362
00:14:52,380 --> 00:14:51,160
that didn't have any hair and so you

363
00:14:53,910 --> 00:14:52,390
have these two completely different

364
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:53,920
versions of the chupacabra and the

365
00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:55,690
original first version was only

366
00:14:59,340 --> 00:14:57,490
occasionally seen by like eyewitnesses

367
00:15:01,290 --> 00:14:59,350
but there were never any bodies found in

368
00:15:03,630 --> 00:15:01,300
the second case you have exactly the

369
00:15:05,850 --> 00:15:03,640
opposite you have bodies found but

370
00:15:08,820 --> 00:15:05,860
nobody seeing these these these these

371
00:15:09,900 --> 00:15:08,830
vampirism in action so so I had to sort

372
00:15:11,550 --> 00:15:09,910
of look at these two different types of

373
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:11,560
chupacabras and reconcile them and put

374
00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:14,050
them in historical and cultural context

375
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:16,720
and during a five-year investigation

376
00:15:20,430 --> 00:15:18,370
something is intense that this is at one

377
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:20,440
stage where you thought I'm going to

378
00:15:23,070 --> 00:15:21,610
give this up I'm going to wrap this up

379
00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:23,080
quickly because I've had enough of it I

380
00:15:26,340 --> 00:15:24,910
mean did it really get to because I mean

381
00:15:28,139 --> 00:15:26,350
you're talking about folklore you're

382
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:28,149
interviewing lots of people and you know

383
00:15:31,079 --> 00:15:29,410
it's a fairly lengthy process you've

384
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:31,089
gone through I mean five years looking

385
00:15:35,370 --> 00:15:33,850
at one phenomena yeah and you bring up a

386
00:15:38,610 --> 00:15:35,380
good excellent question and part of the

387
00:15:40,260 --> 00:15:38,620
answer is that as an investigator you it

388
00:15:43,829 --> 00:15:40,270
takes as long as it takes us all the

389
00:15:45,420 --> 00:15:43,839
mystery and part of the problem you see

390
00:15:46,949 --> 00:15:45,430
on these TV shows like ghost hunters and

391
00:15:48,930 --> 00:15:46,959
all these all these documentaries you've

392
00:15:51,690 --> 00:15:48,940
got 58 minutes in a 60-minute Alan

393
00:15:53,220 --> 00:15:51,700
exactly exactly it gives people firstly

394
00:15:54,810 --> 00:15:53,230
gives audiences the impression that

395
00:15:56,130 --> 00:15:54,820
somehow what they're doing is scientific

396
00:15:58,319 --> 00:15:56,140
and oftentimes it's completely

397
00:16:00,060 --> 00:15:58,329
unscientific but it also gives the

398
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:00,070
impression that mysteries can be solved

399
00:16:05,940 --> 00:16:03,130
in an hour or overnight or a day or a

400
00:16:07,769 --> 00:16:05,950
week and you know I've investigated

401
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:07,779
hundreds of different things crop

402
00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:09,610
circles ghosts Bigfoot chupacabras

403
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:12,910
psychics you know you name it and I mean

404
00:16:16,769 --> 00:16:14,560
I've solved some mysteries in the

405
00:16:18,449 --> 00:16:16,779
afternoon and some mysteries take me 18

406
00:16:21,180 --> 00:16:18,459
months and some mysteries take you five

407
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:21,190
years and and the difference is you have

408
00:16:25,110 --> 00:16:22,930
to be willing to put in the work it's

409
00:16:26,970 --> 00:16:25,120
not that I'm so brilliant or so smart or

410
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:26,980
such a great investigator the difference

411
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:28,450
is the reason that I solve these cases

412
00:16:32,610 --> 00:16:30,730
in these globally known cases and

413
00:16:33,950 --> 00:16:32,620
sometimes is that I'm willing to put in

414
00:16:36,650 --> 00:16:33,960
the work and put in the time and

415
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:36,660
a lot of times what you find is that is

416
00:16:41,330 --> 00:16:38,880
that someone calling it a mystery oh

417
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:41,340
it's unexplained we'll never know all

418
00:16:44,630 --> 00:16:43,170
that means is that they're not willing

419
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:44,640
to put in the effort to find the answer

420
00:16:48,410 --> 00:16:46,530
well Benjamin read for you a very

421
00:16:49,940 --> 00:16:48,420
single-minded gone when you're packing a

422
00:16:51,020 --> 00:16:49,950
suitcase you just pack a suitcase and

423
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:51,030
dad anyone talk to me when you're

424
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:52,530
listening to the radio everyone should

425
00:16:56,140 --> 00:16:53,850
be quite yeah you got you've got that

426
00:16:58,340 --> 00:16:56,150
intense personality there well I I

427
00:17:00,410 --> 00:16:58,350
certainly do when it comes to different

428
00:17:04,010 --> 00:17:00,420
topics because investigation topics

429
00:17:05,120 --> 00:17:04,020
because it's easy to get sidelined if

430
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:05,130
you if you do if you're doing

431
00:17:08,810 --> 00:17:06,810
investigations you're examining the

432
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:08,820
different claims and I wrote about this

433
00:17:12,110 --> 00:17:10,410
in my book scientific parent

434
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:12,120
investigation how to solve unexplained

435
00:17:16,490 --> 00:17:14,160
mysteries I go sort of how to do these

436
00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:16,500
sorts investigations in six or seven

437
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:18,240
case studies and so when you're

438
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:20,010
approaching these topics it's very

439
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:21,930
important to focus on the claims not get

440
00:17:26,030 --> 00:17:23,970
say it's easy to get sidetracked oh you

441
00:17:28,670 --> 00:17:26,040
know go here go there no figure out

442
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:28,680
exactly what what the claims are and go

443
00:17:33,050 --> 00:17:31,290
with them and so it's I think that a

444
00:17:35,450 --> 00:17:33,060
certain single mindedness and

445
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:35,460
determination is essential for for doing

446
00:17:39,620 --> 00:17:37,530
real investigations and what about

447
00:17:41,780 --> 00:17:39,630
cattle mutilation no doubt you've looked

448
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:41,790
at that as well but that's one that I've

449
00:17:45,710 --> 00:17:44,130
seen time time again it seems to be

450
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:45,720
solved some way or it seems to be put

451
00:17:49,340 --> 00:17:47,280
into the unknown category because those

452
00:17:50,660 --> 00:17:49,350
marks can only be made by a laser that

453
00:17:53,390 --> 00:17:50,670
is only someone who knows what they're

454
00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:53,400
doing right yeah in the the CAD

455
00:17:57,020 --> 00:17:55,110
mutilations is an interesting phenomena

456
00:17:58,670 --> 00:17:57,030
because it actually intersects quite a

457
00:18:00,620 --> 00:17:58,680
bit with my chupacabra investigation is

458
00:18:02,300 --> 00:18:00,630
what there's lots of overlap because the

459
00:18:04,250 --> 00:18:02,310
the chupacabra even though it's known

460
00:18:07,010 --> 00:18:04,260
for sucking goats it also sucks the

461
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:07,020
blood out of bunnies dogs cats you know

462
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:09,210
cattle things like that and so I did I

463
00:18:13,460 --> 00:18:11,250
did a fair amount of cattle mutilation

464
00:18:15,620 --> 00:18:13,470
investigation for my from a chupacabra

465
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:15,630
book and of course that also ties in

466
00:18:20,060 --> 00:18:17,850
with with UFOs because there's some

467
00:18:22,550 --> 00:18:20,070
people so what's interesting is that is

468
00:18:24,260 --> 00:18:22,560
that you can have exactly the same dead

469
00:18:25,850 --> 00:18:24,270
end let's say for example you have a cow

470
00:18:28,250 --> 00:18:25,860
that has two puncture wounds in the neck

471
00:18:30,590 --> 00:18:28,260
and is drained apparently drained of

472
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:30,600
almost all its blood you can have three

473
00:18:33,650 --> 00:18:32,400
completely different cultural contexts

474
00:18:36,050 --> 00:18:33,660
in which you'll have three different

475
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:36,060
interpretations so for example if that

476
00:18:42,860 --> 00:18:39,810
if that cow was found in 1997 Puerto

477
00:18:45,230 --> 00:18:42,870
Rico the the answer would be it's a

478
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:45,240
chupacabra the chupacabra got it if that

479
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:47,490
exact same cow was found in

480
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:51,600
1970s New Mexico say late 70s it be

481
00:18:57,169 --> 00:18:54,210
called an alien abduction people would

482
00:18:58,760 --> 00:18:57,179
say yes this this this cow was abducted

483
00:19:01,340 --> 00:18:58,770
by aliens and they were doing these we

484
00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:01,350
were experiments and if it was if it was

485
00:19:06,740 --> 00:19:04,500
found in the mid 80s say in the American

486
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:06,750
Midwest he would be Satanists that's

487
00:19:09,020 --> 00:19:08,010
also that's what i thought the third one

488
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:09,030
was going to be I thought because they

489
00:19:13,070 --> 00:19:11,520
were moved into it as well so and of

490
00:19:15,770 --> 00:19:13,080
course any of them correct by the way

491
00:19:18,890 --> 00:19:15,780
just to save us a lot of time no none of

492
00:19:20,060 --> 00:19:18,900
them are correct and that's the beauty

493
00:19:22,010 --> 00:19:20,070
of it is that when you look at this you

494
00:19:24,620 --> 00:19:22,020
see you have the the exact same

495
00:19:26,299 --> 00:19:24,630
phenomena an identical creature this

496
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:26,309
found in three different cultural social

497
00:19:30,410 --> 00:19:28,410
context is going to be interpreted three

498
00:19:34,130 --> 00:19:30,420
completely and mutually exclusive ways

499
00:19:36,140 --> 00:19:34,140
you know this is not even even if one of

500
00:19:38,210 --> 00:19:36,150
them was correct if the other two can't

501
00:19:39,470 --> 00:19:38,220
be correct anyways but the short answer

502
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:39,480
is that no none of them are correct

503
00:19:43,910 --> 00:19:41,010
because if you do the the forensic

504
00:19:45,410 --> 00:19:43,920
investigation you find it in fact many

505
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:45,420
of these animals are killed by ordinary

506
00:19:49,850 --> 00:19:46,890
predation you have two puncture wounds

507
00:19:51,260 --> 00:19:49,860
the neck it seems very mysterious until

508
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:51,270
you realize that they didn't die from

509
00:19:55,850 --> 00:19:53,610
blood loss they died from the dad from

510
00:19:58,250 --> 00:19:55,860
hemorrhagic from mr internal

511
00:20:00,080 --> 00:19:58,260
hemorrhaging and so it can be very

512
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:00,090
mysterious to a farmer or you know just

513
00:20:03,530 --> 00:20:01,890
again these are not scientists these are

514
00:20:05,450 --> 00:20:03,540
just people working on ranch hands there

515
00:20:06,799 --> 00:20:05,460
but we always see that they work with

516
00:20:07,910 --> 00:20:06,809
these animals every day so they know

517
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:07,920
exactly what they're like and they're

518
00:20:10,850 --> 00:20:09,090
used to seeing things and this is

519
00:20:13,299 --> 00:20:10,860
something unusual on their farm that's

520
00:20:16,490 --> 00:20:13,309
what yeah and and that that's not true

521
00:20:18,590 --> 00:20:16,500
I'll just cut to the chase in there the

522
00:20:21,140 --> 00:20:18,600
fact of the matter is I mean I've talked

523
00:20:23,210 --> 00:20:21,150
to talk to ranchers for example who told

524
00:20:27,140 --> 00:20:23,220
me we know most of the time when a dog

525
00:20:29,060 --> 00:20:27,150
attacks like a sheep or a goat it will

526
00:20:30,919 --> 00:20:29,070
rip the neck out and that's simply not

527
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:30,929
true i mean just factually inaccurate

528
00:20:35,330 --> 00:20:33,090
and we know this because you can talk to

529
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:35,340
animal predation experts and i did that

530
00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:37,770
i did a lot of research on that and when

531
00:20:42,980 --> 00:20:40,110
you when you look at its of me it's true

532
00:20:44,750 --> 00:20:42,990
that sometimes a coyote or a dog will

533
00:20:46,790 --> 00:20:44,760
will rip up something in cause a lot of

534
00:20:48,830 --> 00:20:46,800
blood other times it won't they'll just

535
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:48,840
simply bite the neck and it'll move on

536
00:20:53,690 --> 00:20:50,400
to something else and it'll simply die

537
00:20:55,310 --> 00:20:53,700
and so so the it's interesting because

538
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:55,320
you would expect that would be true you

539
00:20:59,210 --> 00:20:57,690
would expect that oh yeah well they deal

540
00:21:00,830 --> 00:20:59,220
with this every day they should know

541
00:21:02,690 --> 00:21:00,840
better and the answer is the

542
00:21:04,399 --> 00:21:02,700
should know about it but they don't and

543
00:21:06,260 --> 00:21:04,409
of course Australian UFO sighting that

544
00:21:08,210 --> 00:21:06,270
it always has had my interest in is a

545
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:08,220
very difficult one to to prove but is

546
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:09,510
one of the biggest mess sightings in

547
00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:11,850
history is the West all 66 sighting in

548
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:13,260
which a number of school kids in

549
00:21:17,659 --> 00:21:15,570
daylight saw an object in the sky for a

550
00:21:19,070 --> 00:21:17,669
period of time i'ma give a look at that

551
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:19,080
case at all and you've got any theories

552
00:21:23,899 --> 00:21:20,970
with that I have not looked at that case

553
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:23,909
I I heard a little bit about it UFOs are

554
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:25,770
not my specialty I know quite a bit

555
00:21:31,850 --> 00:21:28,890
about them but the thing about UFOs is a

556
00:21:34,340 --> 00:21:31,860
topic is that it runs so deep and it's

557
00:21:35,810 --> 00:21:34,350
so wide as well yeah yeah and and that's

558
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:35,820
why I mean that there's a handful of

559
00:21:41,269 --> 00:21:39,210
like hardcore UFO researchers of you

560
00:21:43,399 --> 00:21:41,279
know Phil class was Phil class Robert

561
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:43,409
Schaefer is excellent and again I I know

562
00:21:48,260 --> 00:21:44,970
quite a bit about certain particular

563
00:21:50,029 --> 00:21:48,270
cases I'm more of a generalist you know

564
00:21:52,430 --> 00:21:50,039
everything encrypted zoology to go

565
00:21:54,019 --> 00:21:52,440
psychics although I again I know quite a

566
00:21:56,029 --> 00:21:54,029
bit about UFOs that particular case I

567
00:21:58,610 --> 00:21:56,039
don't really know enough about to so

568
00:22:02,570 --> 00:21:58,620
what are the gas on so what would you

569
00:22:04,519 --> 00:22:02,580
guess be I if I if I were to hazard

570
00:22:06,289 --> 00:22:04,529
again it you can't use swamp gas because

571
00:22:07,789 --> 00:22:06,299
it's not near a swamp you can't use an

572
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:07,799
inversion layer because there wasn't one

573
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:11,130
that day I would say that my guess is

574
00:22:17,269 --> 00:22:14,610
that that they actually did see a UFO

575
00:22:18,649 --> 00:22:17,279
that is they saw something that was

576
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:18,659
flying in this guy they could not

577
00:22:24,500 --> 00:22:23,490
identify strictly good now if I'm going

578
00:22:26,779 --> 00:22:24,510
looking for a ghost or something

579
00:22:28,850 --> 00:22:26,789
otherworldly what is the best tool for

580
00:22:32,570 --> 00:22:28,860
me to use I see lots of different meters

581
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:32,580
on these ghost shows electro main fit of

582
00:22:38,659 --> 00:22:36,090
course I'm a bit of a fan of EVP big fan

583
00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:38,669
of EVP look a good bit of paranoia goes

584
00:22:46,220 --> 00:22:42,480
a long way and yeah so what tool shall

585
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:46,230
use well um the first tool that you

586
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:49,010
should this you should use is your brain

587
00:22:52,940 --> 00:22:51,600
now immediately you've lost half the

588
00:22:54,409 --> 00:22:52,950
audience here because you've just said

589
00:22:55,789 --> 00:22:54,419
that we've got to go out do a bit of

590
00:22:57,769 --> 00:22:55,799
study perhaps even go to a tertiary

591
00:23:00,740 --> 00:22:57,779
institution who's got time for that kind

592
00:23:03,919 --> 00:23:00,750
of stuff well my investigations begin

593
00:23:06,529 --> 00:23:03,929
usually with research and scholarship

594
00:23:08,690 --> 00:23:06,539
and figuring out what's going on so you

595
00:23:10,970 --> 00:23:08,700
never see that bit on ancient aliens you

596
00:23:13,310 --> 00:23:10,980
never see the study it's not interesting

597
00:23:15,259 --> 00:23:13,320
it's not sexy to be on TV a

598
00:23:18,139 --> 00:23:15,269
a lot of the research that I do again

599
00:23:20,060 --> 00:23:18,149
the the the hard Treasury work of

600
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:20,070
Investigations it's not interesting

601
00:23:23,029 --> 00:23:21,330
it'sit's you know it's going through

602
00:23:24,620 --> 00:23:23,039
online archives going to library it's

603
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:24,630
just digging up research journals from

604
00:23:28,789 --> 00:23:26,730
1948 and spending a favorite song on

605
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:28,799
your own oh absolutely yeah this is not

606
00:23:31,820 --> 00:23:30,450
this is not and this is what I try to

607
00:23:33,379 --> 00:23:31,830
tell people when people come up to me

608
00:23:34,759 --> 00:23:33,389
they'd say oh I've seen you on TV yes

609
00:23:37,820 --> 00:23:34,769
you do investigations this is really

610
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:37,830
cool how do I do that my answer is I can

611
00:23:41,090 --> 00:23:39,120
show you how to do it but you need to

612
00:23:43,820 --> 00:23:41,100
you need to understand this is not it's

613
00:23:46,399 --> 00:23:43,830
not necessarily fun it's not necessarily

614
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:46,409
easy it's not quick and it takes

615
00:23:49,190 --> 00:23:47,850
scholarship and if you're not willing to

616
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:49,200
do the research then then don't bother

617
00:23:52,879 --> 00:23:51,330
and also you're at the hashing a few

618
00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:52,889
people's milho as well when you come up

619
00:23:55,220 --> 00:23:54,000
with answers that they don't want to

620
00:23:57,799 --> 00:23:55,230
hear well although you don't want to

621
00:24:00,440 --> 00:23:57,809
another sit in you become a bad guy yeah

622
00:24:02,330 --> 00:24:00,450
in some cases in some cases you do good

623
00:24:04,879 --> 00:24:02,340
I mean there's been a handful of ghost

624
00:24:06,019 --> 00:24:04,889
cases for example where I actually

625
00:24:07,999 --> 00:24:06,029
helped a family where there were

626
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:08,009
families who were sincerely scared to be

627
00:24:10,999 --> 00:24:09,450
in their own house and it was until they

628
00:24:13,850 --> 00:24:11,009
brought in a skeptical investigator such

629
00:24:16,909 --> 00:24:13,860
as myself that that they were they were

630
00:24:19,310 --> 00:24:16,919
reassured and so I I was so you know

631
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:19,320
certainly there are times when I'm as

632
00:24:23,419 --> 00:24:20,490
you said harshing people's mellow

633
00:24:25,460 --> 00:24:23,429
because because I'm I'm giving them a

634
00:24:27,619 --> 00:24:25,470
more skeptical perspective other times

635
00:24:30,289 --> 00:24:27,629
however I'm reassuring them that that

636
00:24:31,999 --> 00:24:30,299
what they have to fear they don't need

637
00:24:33,529 --> 00:24:32,009
to fear in that that's actually be part

638
00:24:35,149 --> 00:24:33,539
of my job is calming people's fears

639
00:24:37,460 --> 00:24:35,159
whether it's fears about vaccinations

640
00:24:39,649 --> 00:24:37,470
fears about ghosts fears about alien

641
00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:39,659
abductions fears about monsters a lot of

642
00:24:45,379 --> 00:24:43,289
my job is is is figuring out identifying

643
00:24:47,180 --> 00:24:45,389
what people are afraid of and why and

644
00:24:49,779 --> 00:24:47,190
investigate it and try and explain to

645
00:24:52,549 --> 00:24:49,789
them why they should not be afraid and

646
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:52,559
house how quickly in an investigation do

647
00:24:55,789 --> 00:24:54,330
you often work out that it could be self

648
00:24:58,730 --> 00:24:55,799
delusion or there is some actual

649
00:25:00,680 --> 00:24:58,740
deliberate fakery going on well I've

650
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:00,690
actually found relatively little look

651
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:03,120
deliberate fakery um you know it

652
00:25:07,399 --> 00:25:04,559
certainly is true that I've encountered

653
00:25:10,460 --> 00:25:07,409
hoaxing in my time in just about all

654
00:25:13,490 --> 00:25:10,470
areas you know crop circles primarily

655
00:25:14,899 --> 00:25:13,500
but also go somewhere else but most of

656
00:25:16,730 --> 00:25:14,909
the time when people come to me with

657
00:25:18,740 --> 00:25:16,740
experiences whether it's ghosts whether

658
00:25:20,180 --> 00:25:18,750
it's you know yaoi sightings or

659
00:25:22,820 --> 00:25:20,190
Chupacabra sightings what have you

660
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:22,830
they're sincere people they're honest

661
00:25:26,150 --> 00:25:24,000
good

662
00:25:27,290 --> 00:25:26,160
not if they're not trying to pull the

663
00:25:28,970 --> 00:25:27,300
wool over anybody's eyes that are not

664
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:28,980
trying to get rich they said they had

665
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:30,480
some weird experience that they can't

666
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:33,330
explain and so much of the time I have a

667
00:25:37,730 --> 00:25:35,970
degree in psychology and so so I bring

668
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:37,740
that to my investigations and so when

669
00:25:40,190 --> 00:25:39,090
I'm interviewing an eyewitness when I'm

670
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:40,200
interviewing someone who's had this

671
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:42,720
experience they can't explain I try and

672
00:25:46,310 --> 00:25:45,120
get in their mind say hey what I try to

673
00:25:48,620 --> 00:25:46,320
understand from their point of view

674
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:48,630
because I I can I can explain them what

675
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:50,370
I've found in my books in my research

676
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:53,490
but more importantly it in a way it

677
00:25:56,570 --> 00:25:54,810
doesn't matter what I say the question

678
00:25:58,490 --> 00:25:56,580
is what are they going to interpret how

679
00:25:59,690 --> 00:25:58,500
are they going to take it and so a lot

680
00:26:01,520 --> 00:25:59,700
of times when you're talking to

681
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:01,530
eyewitnesses who are very very

682
00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:04,650
passionate about what what they saw you

683
00:26:07,070 --> 00:26:05,910
know again you have to you have to

684
00:26:09,380 --> 00:26:07,080
understand it from their point of view

685
00:26:10,910 --> 00:26:09,390
and say okay why would they be thinking

686
00:26:13,130 --> 00:26:10,920
that and then you sort of you know if I

687
00:26:14,180 --> 00:26:13,140
for bring their perspective have your

688
00:26:17,630 --> 00:26:14,190
perspective and try to bring the two

689
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:17,640
together for basically a common a common

690
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:21,090
goal a common understanding look I've

691
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:22,650
said many times that the plural of

692
00:26:28,550 --> 00:26:25,200
anecdote is not data is that definitely

693
00:26:31,970 --> 00:26:28,560
true uh yeah I would say so you know

694
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:31,980
anecdotes have a have a place in in

695
00:26:35,690 --> 00:26:33,600
research there's there's no design that

696
00:26:37,220 --> 00:26:35,700
I mean their anecdotes not worthless and

697
00:26:39,860 --> 00:26:37,230
I've never suggested otherwise the same

698
00:26:42,020 --> 00:26:39,870
thing with with eyewitness sightings you

699
00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:42,030
know I sometimes have believers who will

700
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:44,310
jump on me saying oh well you're just

701
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:45,690
missing all eyewitness sightings my

702
00:26:51,020 --> 00:26:47,850
answer is no I'm not at all absolutely

703
00:26:53,660 --> 00:26:51,030
not if you have if you and I witness to

704
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:53,670
you know anything you're a crop circle

705
00:26:59,090 --> 00:26:56,640
being made or a ghost case or a you know

706
00:27:01,640 --> 00:26:59,100
uh you know encrypted water whatever it

707
00:27:03,230 --> 00:27:01,650
is UFO I will listen to it i'm not going

708
00:27:05,180 --> 00:27:03,240
to laugh at you i'm not going to ignore

709
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:05,190
you i will listen to what you have to

710
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:07,290
say and if you have other evidence if

711
00:27:11,150 --> 00:27:08,370
there's other eyewitnesses or

712
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:11,160
photographs i'll look at it but but you

713
00:27:13,970 --> 00:27:12,690
know they need to understand that i'm

714
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:13,980
not going to simply take their word for

715
00:27:17,390 --> 00:27:15,690
i can't simply say well I you know just

716
00:27:19,310 --> 00:27:17,400
because someone says I soffit saw

717
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:19,320
something I can't explain that doesn't

718
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:20,610
mean they saw a ghost it just means they

719
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:22,650
saw something they can't explain look at

720
00:27:26,180 --> 00:27:24,000
Benjamin Redford is there any case

721
00:27:28,220 --> 00:27:26,190
you've seen that is the closest to

722
00:27:29,810 --> 00:27:28,230
coming near any kind of evidence of some

723
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:29,820
sort of paranormal event that hasn't

724
00:27:36,860 --> 00:27:32,850
quite made it but it's gone oh you've

725
00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:36,870
done here on probable honestly probably

726
00:27:39,250 --> 00:27:37,520
that

727
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:39,260
the weather there's a handful of cases I

728
00:27:45,100 --> 00:27:42,050
can think of one that jumps to mind is I

729
00:27:46,750 --> 00:27:45,110
did a haunting investigation in Buffalo

730
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:46,760
New York a couple years back it's one of

731
00:27:53,910 --> 00:27:51,010
the case chapters in my book and and the

732
00:27:57,340 --> 00:27:53,920
mother and child and the father and the

733
00:27:59,020 --> 00:27:57,350
father they had a whole classic haunted

734
00:28:01,570 --> 00:27:59,030
house thing they had you know do they

735
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:01,580
had footsteps in the hallway and demonic

736
00:28:05,290 --> 00:28:03,290
pictures and the cats for acting weird

737
00:28:10,300 --> 00:28:05,300
they had [\h__\h] call the classic haunted

738
00:28:12,460 --> 00:28:10,310
house stuff including a the guy claimed

739
00:28:15,130 --> 00:28:12,470
that ghost had kicked him and he was

740
00:28:16,870 --> 00:28:15,140
actually assaulted by a ghost and this

741
00:28:18,370 --> 00:28:16,880
is unusual I mean I'd explained

742
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:18,380
virtually all the other phenomena in

743
00:28:21,310 --> 00:28:19,490
this case I was scratching my head

744
00:28:23,350 --> 00:28:21,320
thinking what the hell's going on here

745
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:23,360
because what was he doing at the time

746
00:28:27,550 --> 00:28:25,250
was he asleep was you in dialogical

747
00:28:29,530 --> 00:28:27,560
going he was going to sleep and in each

748
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:29,540
case is what what is the context here

749
00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:31,250
again were you going to the store to get

750
00:28:35,470 --> 00:28:32,720
some milk what happened when was this

751
00:28:37,420 --> 00:28:35,480
he's well it happened several times as

752
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:37,430
he was going to sleep which was a little

753
00:28:40,420 --> 00:28:39,290
bit of a clue for me but it didn't

754
00:28:42,190 --> 00:28:40,430
really it did necessary explain it

755
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:42,200
because you know I mean I go to say all

756
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:43,730
the time I don't necessarily have feel

757
00:28:49,090 --> 00:28:45,410
ghosts you know attacking you're kicking

758
00:28:51,810 --> 00:28:49,100
me and anyway that again is the cases

759
00:28:54,790 --> 00:28:51,820
who to detail to detail to go into but

760
00:28:56,230 --> 00:28:54,800
essentially what i realize was that he

761
00:28:59,080 --> 00:28:56,240
had what's called restless leg syndrome

762
00:29:01,060 --> 00:28:59,090
and his his his leg he had sleep apnea

763
00:29:03,250 --> 00:29:01,070
and one of the symptoms of sleep apnea

764
00:29:05,020 --> 00:29:03,260
as i researched it was that your leg

765
00:29:07,030 --> 00:29:05,030
will twitch and at the time he was

766
00:29:10,990 --> 00:29:07,040
sleeping alone in innocent he was a big

767
00:29:12,190 --> 00:29:11,000
guy he's probably 300 pounds and he his

768
00:29:14,380 --> 00:29:12,200
leg would twitch as he was going to

769
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:14,390
sleep and he interpreted that in within

770
00:29:19,390 --> 00:29:16,610
the context of a haunted house case as a

771
00:29:22,570 --> 00:29:19,400
ghost kicking in and and so that was a

772
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:22,580
case where you know it was until I until

773
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:24,410
I solved it that was a head scratcher

774
00:29:28,150 --> 00:29:26,330
because that was one of the main claims

775
00:29:30,340 --> 00:29:28,160
and that was the last one because I

776
00:29:32,110 --> 00:29:30,350
solve all the other parts and there was

777
00:29:34,900 --> 00:29:32,120
this one last thing I'm like how the

778
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:34,910
hell and I finally figured it out I know

779
00:29:37,660 --> 00:29:35,840
there's people out there that are going

780
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:37,670
to be saying oh yeah this Radford guy

781
00:29:41,830 --> 00:29:39,530
he's a government asset he's put there

782
00:29:45,370 --> 00:29:41,840
for misinformation to skew people away

783
00:29:46,780 --> 00:29:45,380
from the truth is there any are you here

784
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:46,790
is that part of a misinformation plan

785
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:49,370
yes there we go well that's the I

786
00:29:51,370 --> 00:29:50,510
could've like tweakers said at the

787
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:51,380
beginning and cut

788
00:29:54,460 --> 00:29:53,330
good short there and you must get that

789
00:29:57,130 --> 00:29:54,470
you must have people coming up to you

790
00:29:59,440 --> 00:29:57,140
very angry that that I think you're part

791
00:30:02,440 --> 00:29:59,450
of something and you'll be yeah did

792
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:02,450
probably the worst are the the UFO folks

793
00:30:07,870 --> 00:30:05,600
and the anti-vaxxers I you know

794
00:30:09,790 --> 00:30:07,880
obviously in this line of work when

795
00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:09,800
you're investigating people's claims you

796
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:11,600
piss everybody off you piss off psychics

797
00:30:16,060 --> 00:30:13,850
you piss off you know snake oil peddlers

798
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:16,070
you piss off a lot of people I'm not

799
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:17,690
intentional I don't go into trying to

800
00:30:20,980 --> 00:30:19,370
get out to get anybody but if you're

801
00:30:22,570 --> 00:30:20,990
making claims I'm going to investigate

802
00:30:25,780 --> 00:30:22,580
them and if you're wrong I'm going to

803
00:30:27,850 --> 00:30:25,790
call you on it and end the story and

804
00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:27,860
it's amazing how many people don't call

805
00:30:31,780 --> 00:30:30,080
them on that class isn't it yes you go

806
00:30:33,670 --> 00:30:31,790
people are the don't worry about it or

807
00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:33,680
they don't care mmhmm yeah you're

808
00:30:37,870 --> 00:30:35,510
exactly right and and also the same

809
00:30:40,060 --> 00:30:37,880
thing that happens with me a scientist I

810
00:30:41,530 --> 00:30:40,070
mean oftentimes I'll hear people saying

811
00:30:43,030 --> 00:30:41,540
well you the scientists have them come

812
00:30:44,770 --> 00:30:43,040
out and just proven me well the

813
00:30:48,730 --> 00:30:44,780
scientists are busy doing science you

814
00:30:51,220 --> 00:30:48,740
know nuclear physicist or busy medicine

815
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:51,230
is just the idea that the scientific

816
00:30:55,590 --> 00:30:52,610
community should stop what they're doing

817
00:30:59,470 --> 00:30:55,600
and investigate your you know it is just

818
00:31:01,990 --> 00:30:59,480
anyway so yeah but I get accused of

819
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:02,000
being you know a tool of Big Pharma NASA

820
00:31:06,940 --> 00:31:04,130
basically anytime that I write something

821
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:06,950
someone will will comment and criticize

822
00:31:10,750 --> 00:31:08,210
me and say oh well the only reason

823
00:31:12,340 --> 00:31:10,760
you're saying that is because because

824
00:31:14,740 --> 00:31:12,350
you know you have some sort of agenda

825
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:14,750
and and what's interesting to me is is

826
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:16,640
just the mentality behind that that

827
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:18,770
they're there or something is that the

828
00:31:23,230 --> 00:31:21,770
only reason that we might disagree the

829
00:31:25,540 --> 00:31:23,240
only reason that I might be writing

830
00:31:26,860 --> 00:31:25,550
something or discussing something that

831
00:31:29,890 --> 00:31:26,870
is contradictory to their point of view

832
00:31:32,470 --> 00:31:29,900
is that I must be paid off I must have a

833
00:31:33,940 --> 00:31:32,480
bias I must be in inset instead of maybe

834
00:31:35,290 --> 00:31:33,950
I know more about it than they do maybe

835
00:31:36,910 --> 00:31:35,300
I've researched it maybe I've personally

836
00:31:40,300 --> 00:31:36,920
done right no no there are something is

837
00:31:43,030 --> 00:31:40,310
that what by definition if you disagree

838
00:31:45,430 --> 00:31:43,040
with them then you're either Yuri's are

839
00:31:47,140 --> 00:31:45,440
completely wrong and in stupid or you're

840
00:31:49,510 --> 00:31:47,150
being paid off and that's such an

841
00:31:51,370 --> 00:31:49,520
arrogant point of view now is there if

842
00:31:52,300 --> 00:31:51,380
you had an unlimited budget which of

843
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:52,310
course working to the government you

844
00:31:57,220 --> 00:31:55,490
must have it is there one conspiracy

845
00:31:58,720 --> 00:31:57,230
theory or anomaly that you'd like to

846
00:32:01,150 --> 00:31:58,730
investigate that has so many tangents

847
00:32:03,220 --> 00:32:01,160
like what this claimed happened on 911

848
00:32:03,910 --> 00:32:03,230
or the Kennedy assassination ones that

849
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:03,920
just run

850
00:32:06,850 --> 00:32:05,330
everywhere is there something as

851
00:32:07,870 --> 00:32:06,860
far-reaching as that that you really

852
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:07,880
would like to if you had your own

853
00:32:13,750 --> 00:32:11,210
department and unlimited funds that's a

854
00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:13,760
good question i I've written and

855
00:32:17,710 --> 00:32:15,440
researched some on conspiracy theory

856
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:17,720
honestly I gets to the point where they

857
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:20,450
just get really tiresome because you can

858
00:32:24,790 --> 00:32:22,010
you can put forth the same information

859
00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:24,800
and they just they won't we're not

860
00:32:30,430 --> 00:32:28,880
operating on the same premises and so it

861
00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:30,440
just gets pointless so it's sort of like

862
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:32,720
oftentimes I I've been in debates and

863
00:32:36,820 --> 00:32:34,640
herb debates between conspiracy

864
00:32:39,070 --> 00:32:36,830
theorists and skeptics and it's like

865
00:32:41,890 --> 00:32:39,080
people talking it's like the arguments

866
00:32:43,450 --> 00:32:41,900
between atheists and and and and you

867
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:43,460
know fundamentalist Christians they're

868
00:32:46,660 --> 00:32:45,170
operating on different premises and they

869
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:46,670
go back and forth and back and forth and

870
00:32:51,610 --> 00:32:49,850
and nothing nothing is done and and any

871
00:32:53,890 --> 00:32:51,620
and there's times when you know I mean

872
00:32:56,530 --> 00:32:53,900
I've been I didn't I was talking to a

873
00:32:57,730 --> 00:32:56,540
conspiracy theorist of 911 about 911

874
00:32:59,350 --> 00:32:57,740
attacks and he's talked about how the

875
00:33:03,070 --> 00:32:59,360
plane didn't actually hit the Pentagon

876
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:03,080
and he's having all these stories what

877
00:33:09,370 --> 00:33:05,450
was really a missile and I finally said

878
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:09,380
well where's the plane then he said what

879
00:33:13,660 --> 00:33:10,970
do you mean I said you're saying that a

880
00:33:15,460 --> 00:33:13,670
plane did not hit the Pentagon where is

881
00:33:17,710 --> 00:33:15,470
the plane where are the people on that

882
00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:17,720
plane if you're telling us that that

883
00:33:21,820 --> 00:33:19,760
that that is not what hit the Pentagon

884
00:33:23,860 --> 00:33:21,830
then you need to explain why this this

885
00:33:25,630 --> 00:33:23,870
plane took off this particular plane

886
00:33:27,610 --> 00:33:25,640
took off with these people in this

887
00:33:29,380 --> 00:33:27,620
luggage and didn't go anywhere else in

888
00:33:33,730 --> 00:33:29,390
the world they didn't land anywhere else

889
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:33,740
that were they like well well um I don't

890
00:33:38,350 --> 00:33:36,050
know I know you don't do you I mean and

891
00:33:40,330 --> 00:33:38,360
the and I've pushed people on this one

892
00:33:41,410 --> 00:33:40,340
and I there's the plane landed somewhere

893
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:41,420
and the people who are floated that

894
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:42,650
means that those people have either been

895
00:33:48,940 --> 00:33:45,770
imprisoned or killed right and ages and

896
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:48,950
it is just and you know the problem with

897
00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:50,930
these sources conspiracies in order to

898
00:33:54,340 --> 00:33:52,910
bolster their beliefs they have to come

899
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:54,350
up with more and more out vanished in

900
00:34:00,190 --> 00:33:57,410
elaborate scenarios and so and in fact I

901
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:00,200
had this I I confronted a conspiracy

902
00:34:04,690 --> 00:34:02,210
theorist last year at dragoncon and I

903
00:34:07,060 --> 00:34:04,700
was in the panel and and we had a 911

904
00:34:08,770 --> 00:34:07,070
guy come up and he starts going into his

905
00:34:10,780 --> 00:34:08,780
spiel about poking holes in all this I

906
00:34:13,659 --> 00:34:10,790
said I'll let all of us said you know

907
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:13,669
he's the guy in the audience I said okay

908
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:15,650
I said before before you go any further

909
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:16,370
what

910
00:34:24,550 --> 00:34:20,330
do you think happened on 911 and he says

911
00:34:26,410 --> 00:34:24,560
well well I think that there was a

912
00:34:29,020 --> 00:34:26,420
cover-up I said no no I'll ask again

913
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:29,030
what happened you you're telling us that

914
00:34:33,130 --> 00:34:31,010
the official story is all wrong and

915
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:33,140
you're pokin one is holes in it you tell

916
00:34:36,610 --> 00:34:34,610
if you if you have better information

917
00:34:39,820 --> 00:34:36,620
that we do tell us what happened what

918
00:34:42,100 --> 00:34:39,830
what exactly happened well we don't know

919
00:34:44,350 --> 00:34:42,110
so I was like well hold on here hold on

920
00:34:46,510 --> 00:34:44,360
so so so you you don't know what

921
00:34:48,250 --> 00:34:46,520
happened on 911 but you're convinced

922
00:34:50,830 --> 00:34:48,260
that the official story is all wrong I

923
00:34:52,540 --> 00:34:50,840
said that seem weird to you I mean that

924
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:52,550
you can't offer a better explanation and

925
00:34:56,020 --> 00:34:54,650
he just was being Scott flustered and

926
00:34:57,850 --> 00:34:56,030
walked off I mean there are many

927
00:35:01,570 --> 00:34:57,860
anomalies on that day that fascinate me

928
00:35:03,010 --> 00:35:01,580
and you know and I'm not for many years

929
00:35:04,420 --> 00:35:03,020
I was always wondering about them but I

930
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:04,430
guess there's maybe just some things

931
00:35:08,980 --> 00:35:07,010
you'll never know hmm well you know and

932
00:35:11,710 --> 00:35:08,990
especially it's important to recognize

933
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:11,720
that that there are things that we will

934
00:35:15,370 --> 00:35:13,130
just never know for sure and that

935
00:35:16,660 --> 00:35:15,380
doesn't make them supernatural it

936
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:16,670
doesn't make them especially mysterious

937
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:18,050
it just means that there are things that

938
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:20,690
we don't know to this day no one is

939
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:22,490
completely sure where Amelia Earhart is

940
00:35:25,750 --> 00:35:24,170
there's been new evidence from last year

941
00:35:27,370 --> 00:35:25,760
or two that you might have I to we don't

942
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:27,380
know Natalee Holloway though the

943
00:35:31,900 --> 00:35:30,170
teenager missing in in Aruba where we

944
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:31,910
don't know and again it doesn't mean

945
00:35:35,110 --> 00:35:33,530
that she's kidnapped by aliens it

946
00:35:36,940 --> 00:35:35,120
doesn't mean that she's you know living

947
00:35:38,650 --> 00:35:36,950
a bit living on a planet you know

948
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:38,660
somewhere it just means we there's

949
00:35:44,020 --> 00:35:41,930
simply not enough evidence and so you

950
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:44,030
know it's the especially with something

951
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:47,330
as complex as the 911 attacks and what

952
00:35:51,340 --> 00:35:49,520
about if you take one item from that day

953
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:51,350
in isolation and concentrate on that

954
00:35:55,510 --> 00:35:53,330
fact is that a sensible way to approach

955
00:35:56,620 --> 00:35:55,520
this as well like like the ground effect

956
00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:56,630
in the height of the plane that

957
00:36:00,880 --> 00:35:58,880
apparently hit the Pentagon and that if

958
00:36:02,710 --> 00:36:00,890
you look at that kind of a thing is that

959
00:36:04,570 --> 00:36:02,720
helpful at all or not or is that over

960
00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:04,580
looking at one thing is that just a bit

961
00:36:09,310 --> 00:36:07,730
bad bad way to do things well yeah the

962
00:36:11,710 --> 00:36:09,320
thing is you can always nitpick on

963
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:11,720
something and try and claim that that

964
00:36:17,470 --> 00:36:15,170
one anomaly or perceived anomaly somehow

965
00:36:18,850 --> 00:36:17,480
deflates the whole thing and it that's

966
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:18,860
simply not true because you know there

967
00:36:22,030 --> 00:36:20,570
may be misunderstanding for example you

968
00:36:24,190 --> 00:36:22,040
know I've a friend of mine as a

969
00:36:26,740 --> 00:36:24,200
physicist Dave Thomason in New Mexico

970
00:36:28,359 --> 00:36:26,750
and he's he's basically refuted a lot of

971
00:36:30,940 --> 00:36:28,369
the claims about well you know that

972
00:36:33,279 --> 00:36:30,950
the how about how the flow the floors

973
00:36:36,190 --> 00:36:33,289
pancaked and this and that and and the

974
00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:36,200
presence of dust and and you know and

975
00:36:40,900 --> 00:36:38,480
explosives in NS a lot no thermal

976
00:36:42,190 --> 00:36:40,910
exactly and you know and and there's

977
00:36:44,470 --> 00:36:42,200
actually been some research that was

978
00:36:45,849 --> 00:36:44,480
published just in this past year that

979
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:45,859
basically debunked the whole

980
00:36:51,069 --> 00:36:49,249
nano-thermite story and so you know so

981
00:36:52,900 --> 00:36:51,079
again a lot of times what you find is

982
00:36:54,460 --> 00:36:52,910
that things that are claimed to be

983
00:36:57,099 --> 00:36:54,470
anomalies or appeared to be anomalies

984
00:36:59,259 --> 00:36:57,109
are not necessarily anomalies and and

985
00:37:01,870 --> 00:36:59,269
even if you can if you if you could say

986
00:37:03,730 --> 00:37:01,880
well this part of the story is wrong or

987
00:37:05,140 --> 00:37:03,740
mistaken that doesn't mean that the

988
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:05,150
whole story is wrong a mistaken I mean

989
00:37:11,019 --> 00:37:08,720
you know for example I think of the oj

990
00:37:12,819 --> 00:37:11,029
simpson case the infamous OD sims a case

991
00:37:15,130 --> 00:37:12,829
where where you know it was a it was a

992
00:37:16,329 --> 00:37:15,140
complex case and it was pretty clear to

993
00:37:18,940 --> 00:37:16,339
most people that he was actually guilty

994
00:37:21,279 --> 00:37:18,950
but there was a famous incident where he

995
00:37:22,839 --> 00:37:21,289
was a bloody glove that's right and he

996
00:37:24,279 --> 00:37:22,849
was asked to put on the glove and he put

997
00:37:26,950 --> 00:37:24,289
on the glove of courtroom and the glove

998
00:37:28,210 --> 00:37:26,960
did not fit so what were no it's not

999
00:37:31,180 --> 00:37:28,220
real clear where the glove came from but

1000
00:37:33,609 --> 00:37:31,190
but so so the the defense's point was

1001
00:37:35,019 --> 00:37:33,619
that look they're saying this this blood

1002
00:37:36,549 --> 00:37:35,029
is the killer that this glove was the

1003
00:37:37,809 --> 00:37:36,559
killers it doesn't fit him therefore he

1004
00:37:39,069 --> 00:37:37,819
couldn't done it and it's like if the

1005
00:37:41,559 --> 00:37:39,079
glove doesn't fit you must acquit

1006
00:37:43,839 --> 00:37:41,569
exactly and and that's and that's that's

1007
00:37:45,579 --> 00:37:43,849
fallacious reasoning because you know

1008
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:45,589
just because that particular glove

1009
00:37:50,950 --> 00:37:48,410
didn't wasn't used by him does not mean

1010
00:37:52,420 --> 00:37:50,960
he didn't do it it just means also as

1011
00:37:53,620 --> 00:37:52,430
blood draws it would also shrink the

1012
00:37:55,420 --> 00:37:53,630
glove potentially yeah I mean there's

1013
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:55,430
there's all sorts of different different

1014
00:38:00,039 --> 00:37:57,890
aspects to it and so again the notion

1015
00:38:05,079 --> 00:38:00,049
that if you can find one or two or even

1016
00:38:07,049 --> 00:38:05,089
several details that are wrong or not

1017
00:38:08,979 --> 00:38:07,059
quite correct that doesn't mean anything

1018
00:38:11,710 --> 00:38:08,989
especially in the case of this is

1019
00:38:13,599 --> 00:38:11,720
complex as you know this 11 attacks or

1020
00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:13,609
the Kennedy assassination there's

1021
00:38:18,009 --> 00:38:15,920
there's there's you know tens of

1022
00:38:19,989 --> 00:38:18,019
thousands of pages of documents scans

1023
00:38:22,930 --> 00:38:19,999
photographs there's so much evidence out

1024
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:22,940
there that yeah I'm sure that I mean it

1025
00:38:27,039 --> 00:38:24,410
would be remarkable if every single

1026
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:27,049
piece did fit if you know think about it

1027
00:38:30,430 --> 00:38:29,450
and what's your next challenge what's

1028
00:38:32,710 --> 00:38:30,440
one you want something a bit more

1029
00:38:34,329 --> 00:38:32,720
relaxing you want to look at when I

1030
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:34,339
wrote down here is that people have our

1031
00:38:37,420 --> 00:38:36,170
mind-altering drug experiences with

1032
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:37,430
shame and yet seem to have the same

1033
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:39,410
experience whenever they take this drug

1034
00:38:42,020 --> 00:38:40,770
I find that an interesting one

1035
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:42,030
we be heading off to South America to

1036
00:38:46,010 --> 00:38:44,610
drink some wacky lead I've been in South

1037
00:38:49,970 --> 00:38:46,020
America several times in fact I'm going

1038
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:49,980
to I'm going to Brazil next week ok so

1039
00:38:53,780 --> 00:38:52,050
I'll let you know how that goes oh yeah

1040
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:53,790
I me because I find odd that people seem

1041
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:55,770
to be having a similar experience from

1042
00:38:59,360 --> 00:38:57,090
that when they take a drug i guess there

1043
00:39:02,060 --> 00:38:59,370
could be the drugs action itself but

1044
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:02,070
yeah that would be me that i don't find

1045
00:39:07,370 --> 00:39:04,770
that that that mysterious myself you

1046
00:39:09,620 --> 00:39:07,380
know for example you see that with

1047
00:39:12,530 --> 00:39:09,630
recreational drugs i mean the you know

1048
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:12,540
you can you can determine to some degree

1049
00:39:17,060 --> 00:39:14,850
what a drug is based upon its

1050
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:17,070
pharmacological symptoms so for example

1051
00:39:21,350 --> 00:39:19,530
you know a person who describing a

1052
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:21,360
heroine experience will describe

1053
00:39:24,830 --> 00:39:22,410
something different than person a

1054
00:39:27,020 --> 00:39:24,840
methamphetamine experience or marijuana

1055
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:27,030
experience so just because a person or

1056
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:30,000
antidepressants the perfect example so

1057
00:39:32,690 --> 00:39:31,170
just because a person is taking

1058
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:32,700
interpret it book is you know a

1059
00:39:37,910 --> 00:39:34,890
particular kind of drug and those people

1060
00:39:40,700 --> 00:39:37,920
are reporting similar symptoms doesn't

1061
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:40,710
to mean necessarily suggest anything

1062
00:39:45,170 --> 00:39:43,170
unusual it was a photographer a party

1063
00:39:47,540 --> 00:39:45,180
photographer on the scene in sydney in

1064
00:39:50,210 --> 00:39:47,550
the mid-90s and that the rave parties

1065
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:50,220
and that she could tell she was a non

1066
00:39:54,050 --> 00:39:52,650
partake in anything by the photos the

1067
00:39:55,490 --> 00:39:54,060
cover of the person's face it was

1068
00:39:56,780 --> 00:39:55,500
something the slight coloration of their

1069
00:39:58,280 --> 00:39:56,790
face she could tell what they're on

1070
00:40:00,410 --> 00:39:58,290
whether they were where they were coked

1071
00:40:01,820 --> 00:40:00,420
whether they're on e were there on acid

1072
00:40:03,830 --> 00:40:01,830
she reckon there's certain slight

1073
00:40:04,910 --> 00:40:03,840
colorations in the skin tone i always

1074
00:40:06,860 --> 00:40:04,920
thought that was an interesting theory

1075
00:40:09,410 --> 00:40:06,870
difficult to get it passed an ethics

1076
00:40:11,150 --> 00:40:09,420
committee i would feel ya different

1077
00:40:12,830 --> 00:40:11,160
different to to falsify everything

1078
00:40:15,230 --> 00:40:12,840
without without getting people and doing

1079
00:40:16,820 --> 00:40:15,240
blood samples but but yeah it's an

1080
00:40:18,590 --> 00:40:16,830
interesting idea so you're hitting off

1081
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:18,600
down south gotta let us into what you're

1082
00:40:21,050 --> 00:40:19,920
getting in on so we can all jump in

1083
00:40:23,090 --> 00:40:21,060
there and get the book before you by

1084
00:40:26,470 --> 00:40:23,100
doing a lot shonky research than you try

1085
00:40:28,820 --> 00:40:26,480
yeah yeah i actually this is more of a

1086
00:40:30,380 --> 00:40:28,830
recreational pleasure cruise there we go

1087
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:30,390
that sounds like a cool thing and where

1088
00:40:33,890 --> 00:40:32,160
can we find you online to have some

1089
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:33,900
really long back and forth the long

1090
00:40:37,430 --> 00:40:35,730
email with arguments and caps oh yeah i

1091
00:40:39,650 --> 00:40:37,440
love those yeah the more explanation

1092
00:40:43,130 --> 00:40:39,660
points and caps the better you can find

1093
00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:43,140
you at benjamin radford calm be en je mi

1094
00:40:49,070 --> 00:40:47,310
n ra dia for decom i'm also i also do

1095
00:40:52,190 --> 00:40:49,080
call for discovery news in life science

1096
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:52,200
calm i'm also a co-host on the monster

1097
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:53,450
talk podcast

1098
00:40:57,700 --> 00:40:56,210
for those who like monsters well and do

1099
00:40:59,050 --> 00:40:57,710
you hit the opinion as you mentioned

1100
00:41:00,280 --> 00:40:59,060
earlier just as very last point I've

1101
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:00,290
kept you for a long time sorry about

1102
00:41:04,780 --> 00:41:03,170
that in that so you know how atheists

1103
00:41:06,460 --> 00:41:04,790
don't think they should actually debate

1104
00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:06,470
creationists because they are talking a

1105
00:41:10,420 --> 00:41:07,730
completely different language do you

1106
00:41:12,310 --> 00:41:10,430
think that sometimes a science debating

1107
00:41:14,620 --> 00:41:12,320
pseudoscience gives shooter science more

1108
00:41:17,020 --> 00:41:14,630
credit than it deserves at times yes

1109
00:41:19,060 --> 00:41:17,030
that's that's clearly the case for

1110
00:41:21,730 --> 00:41:19,070
example with creationism where you know

1111
00:41:23,470 --> 00:41:21,740
just the the the act of being

1112
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:23,480
photographed discussing something with

1113
00:41:27,670 --> 00:41:26,450
you know hardcore creationist someone

1114
00:41:30,579 --> 00:41:27,680
like Richard Dawkins or someone else

1115
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:30,589
it's just there's no it gives the this

1116
00:41:34,270 --> 00:41:33,050
is undeserved credibility that being

1117
00:41:35,980 --> 00:41:34,280
said there are certainly times when

1118
00:41:37,599 --> 00:41:35,990
people need to engage with with the

1119
00:41:39,130 --> 00:41:37,609
believers and I'm gonna be I'm a big

1120
00:41:40,990 --> 00:41:39,140
believer in that yeah so does being

1121
00:41:43,390 --> 00:41:41,000
lemons last time he was somewhere and

1122
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:43,400
you we're going now I'm not getting ok

1123
00:41:47,589 --> 00:41:45,890
I'm going to engage but what use

1124
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:47,599
disrepair what usually what usually

1125
00:41:50,589 --> 00:41:48,890
trips you over the edge and what

1126
00:41:53,079 --> 00:41:50,599
happened yesterday well someone was

1127
00:41:54,579 --> 00:41:53,089
talking about I recommend you I reckon

1128
00:41:56,260 --> 00:41:54,589
you'd make a noise just before you go

1129
00:41:58,599 --> 00:41:56,270
into an argument it just goes because

1130
00:42:00,490 --> 00:41:58,609
I'm good let's face it you could take

1131
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:00,500
Deepak chopper in a fight really if you

1132
00:42:06,250 --> 00:42:03,520
know yeah yeah it's you know to my mind

1133
00:42:08,260 --> 00:42:06,260
where the line crosses is when somebody

1134
00:42:10,150 --> 00:42:08,270
says if they just say I believe

1135
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:10,160
something you know I believe in the

1136
00:42:13,510 --> 00:42:11,810
secrets I believe in you know which is

1137
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:13,520
one of your imports thank you very much

1138
00:42:19,450 --> 00:42:16,130
uh you know I believe in you're welcome

1139
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:19,460
I believe in in all these freezing if

1140
00:42:23,349 --> 00:42:21,650
someone just says that then I just let

1141
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:23,359
it go because i'm not i'm not going to

1142
00:42:27,130 --> 00:42:25,609
i'm not going to and not going to try to

1143
00:42:28,870 --> 00:42:27,140
convince someone that you know they

1144
00:42:30,099 --> 00:42:28,880
should not believe in angels it's not

1145
00:42:31,660 --> 00:42:30,109
gonna do me any good i can do them any

1146
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:31,670
good whether they want to leave at the

1147
00:42:35,859 --> 00:42:33,170
point in which number when it's harming

1148
00:42:37,690 --> 00:42:35,869
people in which there's actual harm or

1149
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:37,700
certainly strong potential harm that's

1150
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:38,930
what i'm going to speak up and say no

1151
00:42:42,700 --> 00:42:41,450
this is you need to you need to pay

1152
00:42:44,589 --> 00:42:42,710
attention to things what was the case

1153
00:42:47,290 --> 00:42:44,599
yesterday what was about anti-vaxxers

1154
00:42:48,430 --> 00:42:47,300
and someone tell you oh well you know we

1155
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:48,440
should have a right you know no one

1156
00:42:51,550 --> 00:42:49,970
should be shouldn't force us to do

1157
00:42:54,099 --> 00:42:51,560
anything or I said no as for if you do

1158
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:54,109
anything you use of the laws in the

1159
00:42:57,579 --> 00:42:56,210
country and if you don't want to do that

1160
00:43:00,400 --> 00:42:57,589
no one for you can do whatever the hell

1161
00:43:02,109 --> 00:43:00,410
you want but there there you know for

1162
00:43:04,930 --> 00:43:02,119
first for social health and social

1163
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:04,940
contract and in public health which you

1164
00:43:06,910 --> 00:43:06,290
should care about in your own children

1165
00:43:08,380 --> 00:43:06,920
safety

1166
00:43:11,140 --> 00:43:08,390
you need to get your children vaccinated

1167
00:43:13,780 --> 00:43:11,150
and I wasn't going to buy for a second

1168
00:43:16,569 --> 00:43:13,790
this whole notion of well my rights my

1169
00:43:18,190 --> 00:43:16,579
rights well screw your rights screw your

1170
00:43:19,930 --> 00:43:18,200
rights if it's if it's going to if it's

1171
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:19,940
going to it you know if it's going to

1172
00:43:23,079 --> 00:43:21,770
cause you're chill your own children

1173
00:43:24,940 --> 00:43:23,089
they're not old enough to make the wrong

1174
00:43:26,890 --> 00:43:24,950
decision if there are adults and they

1175
00:43:28,870 --> 00:43:26,900
didn't want to be vaccinated that's fine

1176
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:28,880
that's their decision but if you're if

1177
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:30,170
you're going to make the decisions for

1178
00:43:34,089 --> 00:43:32,450
your child and your child then comes

1179
00:43:36,010 --> 00:43:34,099
down with more polio or measles or

1180
00:43:38,289 --> 00:43:36,020
whooping cough I'm not okay with that

1181
00:43:39,700 --> 00:43:38,299
and what's we mentioned the first thing

1182
00:43:42,099 --> 00:43:39,710
you should take into an investigation is

1183
00:43:43,510 --> 00:43:42,109
information once the first point you

1184
00:43:46,270 --> 00:43:43,520
should be skeptical about an

1185
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:46,280
extraordinary claim well the first one

1186
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:48,530
it would be to to make sure that you

1187
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:51,680
understand that yeah if a claim is

1188
00:43:57,309 --> 00:43:55,280
actually being made a lot of times you

1189
00:43:58,750 --> 00:43:57,319
know before you decide before you begin

1190
00:44:00,099 --> 00:43:58,760
investigating something you need to find

1191
00:44:03,630 --> 00:44:00,109
out did it really happen so for example

1192
00:44:06,670 --> 00:44:03,640
if somebody says you know I saw a UFO

1193
00:44:09,670 --> 00:44:06,680
you know you know over my backyard

1194
00:44:12,339 --> 00:44:09,680
yesterday then you're gonna want to get

1195
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:12,349
other other people information so but my

1196
00:44:16,450 --> 00:44:13,970
point is that you know before we begin

1197
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:16,460
looking at weather patterns flight no

1198
00:44:20,559 --> 00:44:17,930
plans from the nearest airport on the

1199
00:44:22,359 --> 00:44:20,569
other things ask other people and it

1200
00:44:23,859 --> 00:44:22,369
could be you know it could be that you

1201
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:23,869
know someone else was in the same was

1202
00:44:26,349 --> 00:44:25,010
with the person the time and they're

1203
00:44:27,789 --> 00:44:26,359
like why didn't I was there I didn't say

1204
00:44:29,260 --> 00:44:27,799
anything like well hold on here so

1205
00:44:31,390 --> 00:44:29,270
before and same thing with ghost cases

1206
00:44:32,530 --> 00:44:31,400
you know where somebody you know the

1207
00:44:34,450 --> 00:44:32,540
ghost hunters will go into an

1208
00:44:36,220 --> 00:44:34,460
investigation and immediately began

1209
00:44:37,660 --> 00:44:36,230
looking into like the history of the

1210
00:44:39,670 --> 00:44:37,670
house and oh my god was there someone

1211
00:44:41,530 --> 00:44:39,680
named Mary who lived here and they go

1212
00:44:43,059 --> 00:44:41,540
off and off and off and they forget to

1213
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:43,069
investigate the original claim the

1214
00:44:46,870 --> 00:44:45,530
original claim is it's not that someone

1215
00:44:48,579 --> 00:44:46,880
named Mary lived analysis original claim

1216
00:44:50,530 --> 00:44:48,589
is that there's a creaking and a hallway

1217
00:44:51,970 --> 00:44:50,540
when no one's there so you need to

1218
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:51,980
investigate the creaking in the hallway

1219
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:54,970
before you spend 45 minutes or 45 hours

1220
00:44:58,960 --> 00:44:57,170
you know looking into history of the

1221
00:45:01,420 --> 00:44:58,970
house trying to connect it to the

1222
00:45:03,430 --> 00:45:01,430
phenomenon look and look this will be

1223
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:03,440
the last question i really enjoy ancient

1224
00:45:06,609 --> 00:45:04,730
aliens because I just think it's wacky

1225
00:45:08,890 --> 00:45:06,619
it's out there I love it what is the

1226
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:08,900
craptastic investigation show that you

1227
00:45:12,460 --> 00:45:10,970
will kind of enjoy watching or because

1228
00:45:16,750 --> 00:45:12,470
of the way you investigate you can't

1229
00:45:18,370 --> 00:45:16,760
abide any of them yeah the the the worst

1230
00:45:20,230 --> 00:45:18,380
one honestly is probably the ghost

1231
00:45:23,170 --> 00:45:20,240
hunters or ghost adventures

1232
00:45:27,070 --> 00:45:23,180
is so far removed from anything

1233
00:45:30,370 --> 00:45:27,080
resembling science is it's sometimes it

1234
00:45:32,710 --> 00:45:30,380
I find it just maddeningly hilarious and

1235
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:32,720
sometimes I find it madelung frustrating

1236
00:45:38,350 --> 00:45:36,050
it just is just so I the one of those

1237
00:45:40,510 --> 00:45:38,360
who just just odd to see these these

1238
00:45:41,890 --> 00:45:40,520
grown adults pretending to do science

1239
00:45:44,050 --> 00:45:41,900
and print it pretending to do

1240
00:45:46,420 --> 00:45:44,060
investigation and oftentimes fooling

1241
00:45:48,010 --> 00:45:46,430
people into thinking they are and it

1242
00:45:51,070 --> 00:45:48,020
there's just nothing of the sort going

1243
00:45:52,990 --> 00:45:51,080
on it's it's just you know a vacuum of

1244
00:45:55,150 --> 00:45:53,000
stupidity and it's it's it's a it's

1245
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:55,160
either funny or sad to bring how you

1246
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:56,570
look at it and of course the shows are

1247
00:45:59,860 --> 00:45:58,010
really popular you think people are just

1248
00:46:02,230 --> 00:45:59,870
looking for the other and the truth

1249
00:46:04,270 --> 00:46:02,240
isn't that interesting to them yeah I

1250
00:46:06,310 --> 00:46:04,280
mean it's which is a shame to me because

1251
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:06,320
I I think the world is fascinating

1252
00:46:10,180 --> 00:46:07,850
enough as it is I don't I don't need to

1253
00:46:12,010 --> 00:46:10,190
you know we don't need to look to for

1254
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:12,020
for Bigfoot in SE and yaoi and

1255
00:46:15,730 --> 00:46:13,970
chupacabras to find amazing animal I

1256
00:46:18,460 --> 00:46:15,740
mean we have you know bats and cuddle

1257
00:46:21,220 --> 00:46:18,470
fish and squid and there's amazing

1258
00:46:22,450 --> 00:46:21,230
animals on the pygmy hippo the one of

1259
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:22,460
the few animals in nature that looks

1260
00:46:26,710 --> 00:46:24,490
like it's wearing a skivvy or polo neck

1261
00:46:28,510 --> 00:46:26,720
absolutely and and all these things are

1262
00:46:30,370 --> 00:46:28,520
out there and so I in a way I kind of

1263
00:46:31,870 --> 00:46:30,380
feel sad for people who who aren't

1264
00:46:46,010 --> 00:46:31,880
satisfied with our world because there's

1265
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:48,800
the hand side is a podcast of the

1266
00:46:53,570 --> 00:46:50,400
monthly lectures run back camera

1267
00:46:55,450 --> 00:46:53,580
skeptics incorporating each month camera

1268
00:46:58,190 --> 00:46:55,460
skeptics provides experts in their field

1269
00:47:00,710 --> 00:46:58,200
ranging from science and philosophy to

1270
00:47:03,170 --> 00:47:00,720
politics and national security with an

1271
00:47:07,370 --> 00:47:03,180
opportunity to present their views you

1272
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:07,380
can find us at WWE embrace captives dog

1273
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:10,770
latte you the hansard cameras kept its

1274
00:47:33,610 --> 00:47:31,080
joining me now all the way from the

1275
00:47:36,370 --> 00:47:33,620
sun-drenched streets of Melbourne

1276
00:47:38,950 --> 00:47:36,380
Australia adam van langenberg hello Adam

1277
00:47:41,590 --> 00:47:38,960
I Richard hey doing I'm doing really

1278
00:47:44,530 --> 00:47:41,600
well I'm so interested to hear to learn

1279
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:44,540
that you conducted an experiment in your

1280
00:47:48,190 --> 00:47:46,850
classroom in your skeptical sort of Club

1281
00:47:51,790 --> 00:47:48,200
which you can tell us a little bit about

1282
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:51,800
all about testing well I guess ESP in a

1283
00:47:56,740 --> 00:47:53,810
way wasn't it yeah I guess in a way I

1284
00:47:58,570 --> 00:47:56,750
mean a specific subset of ESP can you

1285
00:48:00,850 --> 00:47:58,580
tell whether or not somebody staring at

1286
00:48:03,940 --> 00:48:00,860
you without a actually being able to see

1287
00:48:06,460 --> 00:48:03,950
them which is a type of ability that a

1288
00:48:07,900 --> 00:48:06,470
lot of people often claim to have you

1289
00:48:09,310 --> 00:48:07,910
know I get the feeling that somebody's

1290
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:09,320
looking at me and they turn around and

1291
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:11,690
sure enough somebody is well that's an

1292
00:48:16,330 --> 00:48:13,970
interesting thing because I like adding

1293
00:48:18,070 --> 00:48:16,340
that the feeling from time to time who I

1294
00:48:21,070 --> 00:48:18,080
think somebody is looking at me I think

1295
00:48:22,750 --> 00:48:21,080
it's a very common experience whether

1296
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:22,760
people are looking at you or not as a

1297
00:48:27,460 --> 00:48:24,890
different story of course so you said

1298
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:27,470
about to test whether your students

1299
00:48:31,780 --> 00:48:29,810
could really tell if somebody was sort

1300
00:48:35,230 --> 00:48:31,790
of staring at them yeah we thought we'd

1301
00:48:38,140 --> 00:48:35,240
am given the challenge see see what we

1302
00:48:40,750 --> 00:48:38,150
could do so I got a six kids in the

1303
00:48:42,700 --> 00:48:40,760
group and I said why I said to the group

1304
00:48:46,270 --> 00:48:42,710
has anybody ever had that feeling before

1305
00:48:47,860 --> 00:48:46,280
and just about every hand went up so I

1306
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:47,870
got six kids out of that group and

1307
00:48:53,070 --> 00:48:50,090
thought let's actually uh put this to

1308
00:48:57,190 --> 00:48:53,080
the test so I put buckets on their heads

1309
00:48:58,180 --> 00:48:57,200
Marcus only know your son I don't know

1310
00:48:59,500 --> 00:48:58,190
something that wasn't part of the

1311
00:49:00,760 --> 00:48:59,510
experiment that was just something I've

1312
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:00,770
been meaning to do as a teacher for

1313
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:02,570
years I see but let's just backpedal a

1314
00:49:07,450 --> 00:49:05,090
bit down why now did you put buckets on

1315
00:49:11,230 --> 00:49:07,460
on their heads because I must I must

1316
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:11,240
tell our listeners that I and mr.

1317
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:12,770
investigate as many years ago to a

1318
00:49:17,050 --> 00:49:15,410
little video about how to construct the

1319
00:49:18,820 --> 00:49:17,060
test if somebody was staring at you and

1320
00:49:20,890 --> 00:49:18,830
I understand you that you saw this but

1321
00:49:23,830 --> 00:49:20,900
you've taken it one step forward once

1322
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:23,840
the step more why the buckets well I was

1323
00:49:28,090 --> 00:49:25,850
just a little bit worried i thought if

1324
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:28,100
if a student could see somebody else

1325
00:49:31,240 --> 00:49:30,170
raise their hand or stand up in decay

1326
00:49:33,100 --> 00:49:31,250
that they thought that they were being

1327
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:33,110
stared at maybe that might encourage

1328
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:36,050
them to not do it they might think of

1329
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:37,610
the person next to me is being stared at

1330
00:49:40,540 --> 00:49:39,170
then there's less of a chance that I'm

1331
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:40,550
being stared out so i just wanted to

1332
00:49:45,550 --> 00:49:42,890
eliminate that possibility a little bit

1333
00:49:47,530 --> 00:49:45,560
and also to be honest it was quite fun

1334
00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:47,540
because i was able to advertise on the

1335
00:49:51,130 --> 00:49:49,250
school bulletin by saying you know do

1336
00:49:53,170 --> 00:49:51,140
you enjoy wearing buckets on your head

1337
00:49:54,610 --> 00:49:53,180
do you think you can be you can tell

1338
00:49:57,910 --> 00:49:54,620
when you're being stared at if so come

1339
00:49:59,020 --> 00:49:57,920
along ah well I i I'm all forwarding

1340
00:50:00,790 --> 00:49:59,030
anything you can do to encourage

1341
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:00,800
students to take part in an interesting

1342
00:50:04,510 --> 00:50:02,810
experiment like that so that they turned

1343
00:50:07,630 --> 00:50:04,520
up and they're all there to see whether

1344
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:07,640
they had this extra census extra ability

1345
00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:11,450
and how did the test go it went um it

1346
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:13,730
went quite well i was i was worried I'm

1347
00:50:18,250 --> 00:50:16,130
always a little bit worried when doing

1348
00:50:20,530 --> 00:50:18,260
an experiment where probability plays a

1349
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:20,540
large part in it because there's always

1350
00:50:26,050 --> 00:50:23,210
the chance that the kids get at a

1351
00:50:27,730 --> 00:50:26,060
hundred percent correct so I'm a little

1352
00:50:28,990 --> 00:50:27,740
bit nervous when doing things like that

1353
00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:29,000
just in case that happens but

1354
00:50:33,940 --> 00:50:32,240
fortunately it didn't one of the things

1355
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:33,950
actually want to say one of the one of

1356
00:50:37,390 --> 00:50:35,450
the kids came up with a really brilliant

1357
00:50:39,180 --> 00:50:37,400
thought at the start of it the room that

1358
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:39,190
we did it in has got these big windows

1359
00:50:43,330 --> 00:50:41,570
which look into one of the courtyards in

1360
00:50:45,340 --> 00:50:43,340
the school and a student started

1361
00:50:46,510 --> 00:50:45,350
shutting the curtains and I said on I

1362
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:46,520
don't shut the curtains you know it's

1363
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:48,050
quite a nice day outside let's get some

1364
00:50:53,140 --> 00:50:50,930
Sun lighting and the kids said but what

1365
00:50:56,050 --> 00:50:53,150
if people outside see what we're doing

1366
00:50:58,210 --> 00:50:56,060
and start looking into the room and that

1367
00:51:00,160 --> 00:50:58,220
will mock up who were all staring at oh

1368
00:51:02,770 --> 00:51:00,170
that's an interesting thought thought

1369
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:02,780
that's very very clever because for the

1370
00:51:06,790 --> 00:51:04,850
experiment we had a random number appear

1371
00:51:09,730 --> 00:51:06,800
and whatever number appeared the kids

1372
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:09,740
all had to stare at that person so they

1373
00:51:12,340 --> 00:51:10,850
thought you know what if people outside

1374
00:51:15,850 --> 00:51:12,350
the steering at the wrong person that

1375
00:51:17,170 --> 00:51:15,860
might stuff things up but the the

1376
00:51:19,450 --> 00:51:17,180
experiment went well they're a little

1377
00:51:22,300 --> 00:51:19,460
bit nervous at the start bit too timid

1378
00:51:24,940 --> 00:51:22,310
to put their hands up but they picked up

1379
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:24,950
on it pretty quickly and I do have to

1380
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:27,290
admit I got a vehicle hurried win one of

1381
00:51:32,860 --> 00:51:29,330
my boys kept his hand down for quite a

1382
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:32,870
while and then on the seventh trial we

1383
00:51:37,420 --> 00:51:34,370
actually stared at him for the first

1384
00:51:40,150 --> 00:51:37,430
time in his hand went straight up and

1385
00:51:42,850 --> 00:51:40,160
all of us all of us is sort of looking

1386
00:51:43,849 --> 00:51:42,860
at each other and going are we um we

1387
00:51:47,650 --> 00:51:43,859
just found an actual

1388
00:51:49,579 --> 00:51:47,660
like if we get a a contender for the

1389
00:51:52,579 --> 00:51:49,589
Australian skeptics hundred thousand

1390
00:51:55,089 --> 00:51:52,589
dollar prize is this a classic case of a

1391
00:51:57,739 --> 00:51:55,099
correlation does not equal causation

1392
00:51:59,630 --> 00:51:57,749
well I was hoping it would because I

1393
00:52:01,400 --> 00:51:59,640
would have liked to have I would have

1394
00:52:04,370 --> 00:52:01,410
claimed I think I lived in that price

1395
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:04,380
that he wanted but unfortunately his

1396
00:52:07,279 --> 00:52:05,970
abilities left him pretty quickly and

1397
00:52:10,279 --> 00:52:07,289
then he kept putting up his hand in the

1398
00:52:12,319 --> 00:52:10,289
wrong point so in the entire thing in

1399
00:52:16,430 --> 00:52:12,329
the the time we had we could only run 18

1400
00:52:19,819 --> 00:52:16,440
trials but in that 18 trial in those 18

1401
00:52:22,339 --> 00:52:19,829
trials we had one person put up their

1402
00:52:25,099 --> 00:52:22,349
hand when they were being stared at okay

1403
00:52:27,769 --> 00:52:25,109
so probably a tad below what you would

1404
00:52:30,559 --> 00:52:27,779
expect but it is a limited sample size

1405
00:52:32,690 --> 00:52:30,569
it was a very small sample size yet it

1406
00:52:34,999 --> 00:52:32,700
was below what we expected so I actually

1407
00:52:36,829 --> 00:52:35,009
think that the reason a lot of these

1408
00:52:38,690 --> 00:52:36,839
kids come to the skeptics club is

1409
00:52:40,309 --> 00:52:38,700
because they're anti psychic they

1410
00:52:42,349 --> 00:52:40,319
actually have some kind of psychic power

1411
00:52:46,099 --> 00:52:42,359
that blocks their ability to detect

1412
00:52:48,950 --> 00:52:46,109
things well that's that's a old excuse

1413
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:48,960
run by us when psychics psychics I use

1414
00:52:53,690 --> 00:52:51,450
the term in quotation marks fail as

1415
00:52:55,279 --> 00:52:53,700
various tests by the skeptics you know

1416
00:52:56,930 --> 00:52:55,289
sometimes I say oh that's because the

1417
00:53:00,170 --> 00:52:56,940
skeptics were there blocking our powers

1418
00:53:02,089 --> 00:53:00,180
or something like that absolutely no so

1419
00:53:04,489 --> 00:53:02,099
you've discovered our own magical powers

1420
00:53:06,589 --> 00:53:04,499
we were room full of students who can do

1421
00:53:08,690 --> 00:53:06,599
this amazing power that in itself is a

1422
00:53:09,979 --> 00:53:08,700
psychic power so that in itself you

1423
00:53:12,109 --> 00:53:09,989
could probably apply for the hundred

1424
00:53:14,180 --> 00:53:12,119
thousand dollar prize that's a good idea

1425
00:53:16,249 --> 00:53:14,190
get a few skeptics in and stop their

1426
00:53:17,720 --> 00:53:16,259
abilities from working after getting I'd

1427
00:53:20,150 --> 00:53:17,730
known as just you're starting to do my

1428
00:53:22,190 --> 00:53:20,160
head in adam but about from having

1429
00:53:25,039 --> 00:53:22,200
people wearing buckets and kids staring

1430
00:53:28,279 --> 00:53:25,049
at other kids it sounds like and I was

1431
00:53:30,670 --> 00:53:28,289
very lucky I was a guest of yours Oh a

1432
00:53:33,170 --> 00:53:30,680
year or two now ago to speak at your

1433
00:53:35,660 --> 00:53:33,180
skeptics club how is the skeptics club

1434
00:53:38,630 --> 00:53:35,670
at your school going in general it's

1435
00:53:41,420 --> 00:53:38,640
going well I've got my nice little group

1436
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:41,430
of regulars coming along I've had a some

1437
00:53:45,460 --> 00:53:42,960
kids expressing interest in actually

1438
00:53:48,950 --> 00:53:45,470
running a few sessions which is

1439
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:48,960
wonderfully in their arm it's sort of at

1440
00:53:51,650 --> 00:53:50,160
the start of it they were just you know

1441
00:53:52,999 --> 00:53:51,660
coming along to the sessions and

1442
00:53:54,380 --> 00:53:53,009
listening to what I had to say and you

1443
00:53:56,779 --> 00:53:54,390
know having discussions but now they're

1444
00:53:57,470 --> 00:53:56,789
actually going off and looking up things

1445
00:54:00,320 --> 00:53:57,480
on their own

1446
00:54:02,060 --> 00:54:00,330
I've got a one girl who came to me just

1447
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:02,070
the other day and she said all of these

1448
00:54:05,870 --> 00:54:03,930
all of my ear sevens do the other you

1449
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:05,880
seven students are really worried about

1450
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:08,810
this Illuminati group really so amongst

1451
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:11,010
amongst a lot of the kids they've been

1452
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:12,930
passing around these YouTube videos and

1453
00:54:17,630 --> 00:54:15,570
sharing them on Facebook about the

1454
00:54:19,820 --> 00:54:17,640
Illuminati so she was saying I can you

1455
00:54:21,590 --> 00:54:19,830
you know can you do something about that

1456
00:54:23,390 --> 00:54:21,600
and can you try to get these kids and

1457
00:54:26,780 --> 00:54:23,400
you know talk to him about what's

1458
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:26,790
happening there I started up a website

1459
00:54:30,500 --> 00:54:29,010
for the group just a Google site through

1460
00:54:33,140 --> 00:54:30,510
the school's Network a while ago and

1461
00:54:35,570 --> 00:54:33,150
sort of got a bit I stopped doing it

1462
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:35,580
because the idea of it was just to you

1463
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:37,680
know teach people about different areas

1464
00:54:40,849 --> 00:54:39,090
and skepticism but I figured there a

1465
00:54:43,430 --> 00:54:40,859
milling websites out like that anyway so

1466
00:54:44,990 --> 00:54:43,440
I reinvent the wheel but just a couple

1467
00:54:46,460 --> 00:54:45,000
of weeks ago one of my kids had found

1468
00:54:48,620 --> 00:54:46,470
that and said well why don't we start

1469
00:54:50,359 --> 00:54:48,630
doing it we can go on research different

1470
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:50,369
topics and then we can write little

1471
00:54:54,349 --> 00:54:51,810
articles about them and put them up on

1472
00:54:57,470 --> 00:54:54,359
the site so that was I thought that was

1473
00:55:00,580 --> 00:54:57,480
great as well and even a couple of kids

1474
00:55:02,870 --> 00:55:00,590
who the next time there's a skeptic camp

1475
00:55:04,250 --> 00:55:02,880
have because I've heard about the

1476
00:55:05,810 --> 00:55:04,260
skeptic cams and they've said I'll could

1477
00:55:07,580 --> 00:55:05,820
we do a skeptic am could we actually

1478
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:07,590
come along and give a presentation wow

1479
00:55:13,190 --> 00:55:10,170
so deeply um they're really starting to

1480
00:55:15,109 --> 00:55:13,200
get into the idea of not just come to

1481
00:55:17,359 --> 00:55:15,119
the club to learn about things but now

1482
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:17,369
to actually start taking those things on

1483
00:55:21,109 --> 00:55:18,810
board and maybe teach other people

1484
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:21,119
that's that's very encouraging now of

1485
00:55:25,490 --> 00:55:23,490
course you're going to be a speaker as I

1486
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:25,500
will be at the upcoming Australian

1487
00:55:29,740 --> 00:55:28,170
skeptics National Convention I any of

1488
00:55:34,430 --> 00:55:29,750
your students planning to come along

1489
00:55:36,590 --> 00:55:34,440
yeah I've got um 11 student so far has

1490
00:55:38,330 --> 00:55:36,600
confirmed that she's um coming along I

1491
00:55:42,170 --> 00:55:38,340
think she I think she actually had to

1492
00:55:43,490 --> 00:55:42,180
make a decision between that or spending

1493
00:55:44,750 --> 00:55:43,500
spending the money on something else

1494
00:55:47,180 --> 00:55:44,760
that you'd been really looking forward

1495
00:55:48,470 --> 00:55:47,190
to doing and she'll sort of try to make

1496
00:55:50,660 --> 00:55:48,480
a decision about it but just the other

1497
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:50,670
day she said no I've decided I want to

1498
00:55:54,710 --> 00:55:52,890
come to the skeptics convention mm-hmm I

1499
00:55:56,210 --> 00:55:54,720
think also the the thought of being at

1500
00:55:58,880 --> 00:55:56,220
the thing and getting to me James Randi

1501
00:56:00,410 --> 00:55:58,890
in person would get quite excited she's

1502
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:00,420
actually very excited about a lot of the

1503
00:56:03,470 --> 00:56:01,890
people coming when she's going on James

1504
00:56:05,210 --> 00:56:03,480
Randy's there who she's watched sheets

1505
00:56:07,430 --> 00:56:05,220
of his YouTube you know she listens to

1506
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:07,440
your podcast cool so she's excited to uh

1507
00:56:11,410 --> 00:56:10,290
to meet you and dr. ray cheese she's

1508
00:56:13,380 --> 00:56:11,420
excited to meet Rebecca

1509
00:56:16,380 --> 00:56:13,390
watson because she follows her as well

1510
00:56:18,700 --> 00:56:16,390
so it's nice to hear you know a

1511
00:56:21,430 --> 00:56:18,710
fifteen-year-old girl getting excited

1512
00:56:23,530 --> 00:56:21,440
about meeting her skeptical heroes well

1513
00:56:25,930 --> 00:56:23,540
it's very very encouraging to hear that

1514
00:56:28,210 --> 00:56:25,940
and I can't wait to meet to meet her at

1515
00:56:31,089 --> 00:56:28,220
the convention and have a chat with her

1516
00:56:32,799 --> 00:56:31,099
about her outlook now before we go it

1517
00:56:35,230 --> 00:56:32,809
always interested me because as you know

1518
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:35,240
i also do educational outreach i do a

1519
00:56:39,039 --> 00:56:36,890
show called the mystery investigators of

1520
00:56:41,109 --> 00:56:39,049
dr. Rachael and Ian bryce from time to

1521
00:56:42,549 --> 00:56:41,119
time and one of the one of the things

1522
00:56:45,579 --> 00:56:42,559
that really interests me when I'm

1523
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:45,589
talking to school students is what

1524
00:56:49,569 --> 00:56:47,690
they've heard about and I always try to

1525
00:56:52,900 --> 00:56:49,579
remember back to when I was their age in

1526
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:52,910
the 1970s and that was a really big time

1527
00:56:58,450 --> 00:56:55,130
for UFOs and Bigfoot especially I

1528
00:57:00,460 --> 00:56:58,460
remember is it have you discovered or do

1529
00:57:02,079 --> 00:57:00,470
you have you found much the same thing

1530
00:57:04,450 --> 00:57:02,089
that kids are really still interested in

1531
00:57:08,039 --> 00:57:04,460
monsters and UFOs and and like we could

1532
00:57:11,289 --> 00:57:08,049
say the old fashioned sort of phenomena

1533
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:11,299
not um not monsters so much the biggest

1534
00:57:17,380 --> 00:57:13,690
thing I hear about from kids is

1535
00:57:19,900 --> 00:57:17,390
conspiracy theories really wow that's um

1536
00:57:21,970 --> 00:57:19,910
that's what they're sort of into a

1537
00:57:23,650 --> 00:57:21,980
little bit at the moment there's a lie

1538
00:57:27,339 --> 00:57:23,660
like I mentioned before the idea of the

1539
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:27,349
Illuminati yeah and another teacher just

1540
00:57:31,030 --> 00:57:28,730
a couple of weeks ago actually said that

1541
00:57:34,539 --> 00:57:31,040
a bunch of his e7 students were all

1542
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:34,549
talking about oh it wasn't the

1543
00:57:37,930 --> 00:57:36,559
Illuminati but again it was a similar

1544
00:57:41,140 --> 00:57:37,940
thing you knows about a shadowy

1545
00:57:44,140 --> 00:57:41,150
organization that sort of us controlling

1546
00:57:45,849 --> 00:57:44,150
a lot of governments and and stuff like

1547
00:57:49,420 --> 00:57:45,859
that so conspiracy theories are a bit

1548
00:57:51,190 --> 00:57:49,430
big at the moment UFOs definitely the

1549
00:57:54,069 --> 00:57:51,200
interesting route UFOs but they're not

1550
00:57:57,430 --> 00:57:54,079
that's not the buds right at the moment

1551
00:57:59,440 --> 00:57:57,440
right well I mean my listeners of my age

1552
00:58:02,950 --> 00:57:59,450
and around my age of them sort of the

1553
00:58:05,049 --> 00:58:02,960
mid 40s or that era will certainly

1554
00:58:07,710 --> 00:58:05,059
remember what it was like in the 1970s

1555
00:58:10,420 --> 00:58:07,720
with UFO documentaries and movies and

1556
00:58:11,740 --> 00:58:10,430
aliens every way I mean couldn't leave

1557
00:58:13,809 --> 00:58:11,750
the house without stumbling over an

1558
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:13,819
alien or two I guess things change and

1559
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:15,970
it's interesting to hear that kids are

1560
00:58:20,500 --> 00:58:17,930
somewhat interested in and all the

1561
00:58:22,650 --> 00:58:20,510
conspiracy theories out there now I I

1562
00:58:24,570 --> 00:58:22,660
really think what you're doing is

1563
00:58:26,610 --> 00:58:24,580
a great idea this this whole skeptical

1564
00:58:28,890 --> 00:58:26,620
club at the school how can other

1565
00:58:30,690 --> 00:58:28,900
teachers listening to this who I think

1566
00:58:34,020 --> 00:58:30,700
that might be a good idea how can they

1567
00:58:39,090 --> 00:58:34,030
get in contact with you best way to

1568
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:39,100
contact me is through my blog where each

1569
00:58:42,540 --> 00:58:41,050
week I write up what we've done in the

1570
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:42,550
group so people that want to see what

1571
00:58:46,500 --> 00:58:44,530
type of activities we doing what type of

1572
00:58:48,780 --> 00:58:46,510
discussions we have you know what the

1573
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:48,790
kids have to say I put all of that

1574
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:50,770
straight up on the website so the

1575
00:58:58,650 --> 00:58:55,210
address to that is ww skeptics cool calm

1576
00:59:00,240 --> 00:58:58,660
and it's skeptic with a see if there is

1577
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:00,250
another website skeptic with this okay I

1578
00:59:04,950 --> 00:59:02,050
think that goes to the J ref page action

1579
00:59:07,670 --> 00:59:04,960
but I'm skeptic school with a sea will

1580
00:59:10,890 --> 00:59:07,680
go to my blog and from there they can

1581
00:59:12,810 --> 00:59:10,900
leave a comment or send me an email they

1582
00:59:15,870 --> 00:59:12,820
can also armed skeptic school if they

1583
00:59:17,550 --> 00:59:15,880
search for that on twitter okay so i can

1584
00:59:19,110 --> 00:59:17,560
follow me through twitter and I mean

1585
00:59:20,340 --> 00:59:19,120
there's a Facebook page as well so you

1586
00:59:23,220 --> 00:59:20,350
can do a search for skeptics school

1587
00:59:24,810 --> 00:59:23,230
there also and I noticed that in the

1588
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:24,820
very latest issue of the skeptic

1589
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:26,170
magazine that's the skeptic magazine

1590
00:59:31,260 --> 00:59:28,810
from here in Australia the Australian

1591
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:31,270
skeptics magazine there is a report a

1592
00:59:38,370 --> 00:59:34,330
write-up of your staring test with the

1593
00:59:39,870 --> 00:59:38,380
buckets yeah I am yep I've had a look at

1594
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:39,880
the sample of that as well so I'm

1595
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:41,410
looking forward to that coming out also

1596
00:59:44,970 --> 00:59:43,690
we'll add them all power to you i really

1597
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:44,980
appreciate what you're doing in the

1598
00:59:47,970 --> 00:59:46,810
classroom there you know what I'm it's

1599
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:47,980
it's been a while I'm going to have to

1600
00:59:52,380 --> 00:59:50,050
make a trip down to Melbourne maybe

1601
00:59:54,150 --> 00:59:52,390
maybe early next year and give another

1602
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:54,160
talk to your skeptical group I'd really

1603
00:59:58,380 --> 00:59:56,770
like to do that absolutely the kids

1604
01:00:01,110 --> 00:59:58,390
would our kids would love to see you

1605
01:00:03,090 --> 01:00:01,120
again I know that much adam van

1606
01:00:05,130 --> 01:00:03,100
langenberg The Skeptical teacher from

1607
01:00:28,620 --> 01:00:05,140
Melbourne thank you very much thanks

1608
01:00:34,089 --> 01:00:31,540
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1609
01:00:36,700 --> 01:00:34,099
zone wow what an interesting life Ben

1610
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:36,710
Bradford has folks I'd love to go out

1611
01:00:40,390 --> 01:00:38,690
one day and with the bend and have an

1612
01:00:41,980 --> 01:00:40,400
investigation there's some mystery or

1613
01:00:44,109 --> 01:00:41,990
ghosts or monster or something like that

1614
01:00:46,599 --> 01:00:44,119
that would be fantastic fun and well

1615
01:00:49,359 --> 01:00:46,609
done to adam van langenberg for really

1616
01:00:51,849 --> 01:00:49,369
helping to spread the skeptical message

1617
01:00:55,390 --> 01:00:51,859
which is really science in the schools

1618
01:00:58,990 --> 01:00:55,400
the way he does as hats off to you Adam

1619
01:01:01,299 --> 01:00:59,000
well done now before I go before I go

1620
01:01:04,299 --> 01:01:01,309
the folks who are involved in putting

1621
01:01:06,609 --> 01:01:04,309
together the convention in Melbourne at

1622
01:01:09,430 --> 01:01:06,619
the end of november well there's an idea

1623
01:01:11,620 --> 01:01:09,440
that if we can do it if we can do it in

1624
01:01:15,609 --> 01:01:11,630
time if we can organise it would love to

1625
01:01:17,710 --> 01:01:15,619
have somebody apply for our $100,000

1626
01:01:21,210 --> 01:01:17,720
prize or indeed the James Randi 1

1627
01:01:23,500 --> 01:01:21,220
million dollar prize and have them

1628
01:01:25,870 --> 01:01:23,510
tested or at least have somebody give a

1629
01:01:28,630 --> 01:01:25,880
demonstration of their amazing a power

1630
01:01:31,150 --> 01:01:28,640
or ability during the melbourne

1631
01:01:34,059 --> 01:01:31,160
convention if we can arrange it so if

1632
01:01:36,309 --> 01:01:34,069
you're out there and you'd like to strut

1633
01:01:38,380 --> 01:01:36,319
your stuff for James Randi or the

1634
01:01:41,530 --> 01:01:38,390
Australian skeptics or something like

1635
01:01:44,170 --> 01:01:41,540
that and you have my personal ironclad

1636
01:01:46,930 --> 01:01:44,180
guarantee we shall treat you fairly and

1637
01:01:51,849 --> 01:01:46,940
with respect and any tests we do add

1638
01:01:53,650 --> 01:01:51,859
designed for you to win if you have your

1639
01:01:55,900 --> 01:01:53,660
power if your power is real then the

1640
01:02:00,250 --> 01:01:55,910
tests are specifically designed so you

1641
01:02:02,109 --> 01:02:00,260
will pass them contact us let us know if

1642
01:02:07,329 --> 01:02:02,119
you're at all interested in the best way

1643
01:02:10,690 --> 01:02:07,339
to do that is via WWV skeptics wordpress

1644
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:10,700
com there's a million dollars out there

1645
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:11,930
at least a hundred thousand from

1646
01:02:16,809 --> 01:02:15,290
Australian skeptics have a think contact

1647
01:02:18,819 --> 01:02:16,819
us sender well we'll see what we can

1648
01:02:22,089 --> 01:02:18,829
cook up well it's still a lovely day

1649
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:22,099
outside of planes are sort of all landed

1650
01:02:26,079 --> 01:02:23,930
now while the role taken off to

1651
01:02:27,549 --> 01:02:26,089
somewhere I'm going to go outside it's

1652
01:02:31,140 --> 01:02:27,559
such a beautiful day I'm going to find

1653
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:31,150
dumb some soft-serve ice cream or here

1654
01:02:37,060 --> 01:02:34,970
chocolate dipped oh yeah they'll get me

1655
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:37,070
through until next week's episode

1656
01:02:41,650 --> 01:02:39,170
the skeptic zone until then this is

1657
01:02:47,860 --> 01:02:41,660
Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney

1658
01:02:52,540 --> 01:02:47,870
Australia you've been listening to the

1659
01:02:56,380 --> 01:02:52,550
skeptic zone visit our website at www